What people consider is good accuracy for a sub 12 air rifle

Duff Beer said:
Is you barrel floating, and are you using dry lube on the hammer?
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No it's not free floating- I've seen other AGF members say it improves accuracy - is that an easy job as I'm not by skill or nature a settler.?The gun was professionally serviced recently but I don't lube the hammer - again is that an easy job? Thanks I appreciate the suggestions.
 
valevelo said:
Drives you mad doesn't it. Such small things can cause it as well outside of the kit you're using- sleep, caffeine, headache, sugar
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Yes really does and I agree I'm sure when I stay up late Saturday with our lass then go to range tired full of caffeine I'm shite😅
 
Gixxerrob said:
Without sounding a d#ck shooting anything less than 50 yards with a good quality sub 12 pcp at the range is a waste of pellets...50 to 100 yards is the norm now imo
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Mackem said:
No it's not free floating- I've seen other AGF members say it improves accuracy - is that an easy job as I'm not by skill or nature a settler.?The gun was professionally serviced recently but I don't lube the hammer - again is that an easy job? Thanks I appreciate the suggestions.
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Free floating is really easy (and reversible!). Take the action out of the stock, take the silencer off, slide the barrel band forwards, and remove the top o-ring out of its groove. Put it back together and you’re done. You might not see any difference, in which case just put the o-ring back

Cleaning the hammer and changing the lube is a simple but fiddly job, but if it’s just been serviced I’d leave it. The only reason I switched to dry lube is that I found the normal lube would change viscosity depending on the temperature and give slightly (and I mean slightly) inconsistent power shot to shot. I’m talking marginal though, instead of a spread of 16fps it’s down to 14fps and an SD of around 4.6 to 3.3
 
valevelo said:
That group is nothing for you or the gun to be ashamed of. There will be difference shooting indoors off a shooting table with a front rest or bipod that costs more than your gun, combined with a rear bag or monopod, but does your shooting require it.

Hunting- sub 5p at 38m is fine.
Plinking- fine
Competitive Benchrest- not good enough.

That group could probably be tightened up with a lot cheaper things than an expensive rifle though:
-Extensive pellet testing (die and batch)
-Washing, Weighing & Sorting pellets.

Edit: just re read your post and you're already doing that
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Thanks for your and everybody elses comments on this. I will reply to everyone where appropriate, but I'll start a reply to the first comment on the group here.

I've not got to the washing, sizing and lubing pellet stage yet, but I have sorted a tin of 0.547 gram pellets by weight into 3 groups - < 0.54 grams, 0.54x grams and > 0.55 grams.

I weighed the pellets to check if I could see a big difference in accuracy or more importantly consistency. It took flipping ages to weigh a new tin of JSP Exact, 0.547g, 8.44gr, 4.51s. What I found were that 40% were in the 0.54x range, 40% were 0.55x and 20% were less than 0.54x (some as low as 0.50xg, the greatest variation were with pellets lighter than stated weight). All the pellets in the tin were well formed with no damaged skirts. BUT shooting about 100 pellets from the 0.54x range didn't bring any more notably more consistent results than using an unsorted tin for me. Could be that I'm not scientific enough with my weighing, recording of results or environmental conditions monitoring, but I'm happy enough that pellet weighing wasn't having the kind of impact on consistency that could explain those flyers that are annoying me so much.

Of course I could still be using pellets that aren't the best for the barrel, but I've tried a good variety and JSPs and Air Arms DF (which are JSP anyway?) do seem to give the best results.

I have been loath to mention my rifle as it does seem to have as many detractors as fans and I wanted to hear people's experiences or expected accuracy and consistency in general rather than comments to upgrade from my "beginners" air rifle.

My last chrono test using JSPp 8.44 gr from full to tailing off showed an average of 769 fps with quite a large spread of 22 fps. This is what started me thinking that upgrading to something with a lower spread would result in more consistent results and why I asked what was considered good accuracy. I should have asked about consistency/precision and maybe even chrono results.

pjtech's post of the savagearms article on "Understanding The Difference Between Accuracy and Precision" was just what I needed. Precision is what I'm missing out on, not accuracy. The article gives suggestions on how to improve and of course one of the ways is to use quality equipment, maybe something with not such a large fps spread :-)

For clarification on other comments, I'm garden plinking at 38m (soon to be moved out to 45m) only, competing with myself, not hunting or planning on any comp just yet. I like the sound of air rifle PSR comps, but I'm don't have the attention to detail required for benchrest comps.

Today's announcement of the HW100X has got me excited though, so maybe I'll just upgrade and hope there will be no need to hunt for unicorns after that.

Thanks everyone who provided their insight on this thread.

Chris
 
There’s so many variables involved unless it’s an indoor range fully rested the vast majority of established brands of guns can achieve impressive results. Personally I think the pellets are the limiting factor. Find the right pellets for the gun at sub12 is more important than the latest all singing all dancing equipment.
 
Duff Beer said:
Free floating is really easy (and reversible!). Take the action out of the stock, take the silencer off, slide the barrel band forwards, and remove the top o-ring out of its groove. Put it back together and you’re done. You might not see any difference, in which case just put the o-ring back

Cleaning the hammer and changing the lube is a simple but fiddly job, but if it’s just been serviced I’d leave it. The only reason I switched to dry lube is that I found the normal lube would change viscosity depending on the temperature and give slightly (and I mean slightly) inconsistent power shot to shot. I’m talking marginal though, instead of a spread of 16fps it’s down to 14fps and an SD of around 4.6 to 3.3
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Thanks for that - very helpful.
 
I have a Sp M60 in 0.177 and range out 20 to 30 Mts, without going into washing, polishing, weighing & sizing the pellet / slug I normally achieve a target single hole size **, however if I have a lot on my mind, wind is blowing with gusts and I've forgot to put the rifle fill pressure high enough then the ** becomes **** . Have fun.
 
Mackem said:
If you look at the Target Shooting Forum there's a competition running 'AGFandTony' . You'll see what people are achieving at different distances, types of gun and calibres. As for. 'pellet on pellet ' it's a boast I can seldom make - 5p groups at 20m with a HW100KT is my norm and I don't see much chance of improving too much regardless of any changes I could make. But I'm an old git. Young 'uns are different.
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Thanks Mackem, that forum makes for some interesting reading.
 
The power, I think, is largely irrelevant when comparing, say Sub 12 to FAC at ranges of up to, say, 50 yards. I have seen numerous forum posts from fellow shooters in the US reducing the power of their rifles to Sub 12 levels and noting increased accuracy in terms of group sizes. Slugs are, of course, the exception.

But, I digress...

Acceptable, I think, is a 5 pence grouping (under 18mm) out to 50 yards indoors (no wind) out of the box for a mid-range rifle. For a target-focused rifle, I would expect a tight cloverleaf group under the same conditions, again, out of the box.

Of course, a much greater degree of accuracy can be achieved, and yes, I do mean 'pellet upon pellet' (indoors/rested/no wind), but this comes at the expense and effort of pellet testing and tweaking the velocity to eek out every last mm of accuracy. Consistency is another subject entirely.
 
jesim1 said:
In many cases you can get more accuracy with a quality gun purely down to fit and finish, feel, and how comfortable you are with it. It's not that cheaper guns are often less accurate, but with sloppy triggers, rough cocking, and less than perfect shot cycle they can make your shooting less accurate as they are not as nice to use - simple as that some times Shrug tt
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Jesim1,

True, my gun had a very sticky first stage when I got it (second hand), but it smoothed out with use. Cocking my bolt action gun depends a lot on the pellets too. Three types of H&N pellets were awful, with one getting stuck at least every other mag full. Despite that Baracuda 8's were amongst the most accurate I tried, just couldn't cope with the grinding and occasional stuck pellet during cocking. Loading JSPs is always silky smooth by comparison.

Chris
 
Matt@Nearfield said:
Not for me it's not.
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Or me!
I shoot no further than 40 metres at targets and plinking, max 30 metres when doing pest control 👍
It’s the modern thing to try long range shooting with air rifles but for most it’s very hit and miss but good luck to those that can!
I would hate to think that new shooters would expect to achieve good results at these long ranges, it’s alright for a bit of fun or the very dedicated but it’s not the norm.
 
To define acceptable accuracy, one must first define the context.

I serviced a friend's old, battered and abused BSA meteor about 10 years ago. I reckon it was manufactured in the early '80s. The rifle had been used on the friend's family farm since it was acquired for ratting and bagging the occasional squirrel and pigeon.

I had fond memories of my own .22 Super Meteor which I got around 1978, which perhaps gave me some rose tinted glasses. While I achieved everything I had hoped when servicing my friend's meteor, I was a bit disappointed by the resultant accuracy - I could do no better on a consistent basis than average 1 " groups at about 15 yards with open sights (I could not get a telescopic sight and mounts to sit securely in the dovetails).

Reflecting on the accuracy of the rifle, I realised that for close up rat control in a barn, the accuracy of the rifle was probably good enough. I also came to realise the rifle was probably performing as expected, and it would be unreasonable to expect it to give the same accuracy as a modern high quality break barrel, let alone a high quality underlever or PCP.

The same applies to every other aspect of defining accuracy - whether the rifle is shot bench rest style, off sticks, prone supported, kneeling, sitting, etc etc. All will test the rifle's accuracy but will also test the shooter's skill, to different degrees. Sometimes I think we focus more on our rifles than ourselves as it easier to think there must be a shortcoming with our equipment than ourselves. I certainly spend much more time tinkering with my rifles and then testing them by shooting them rested than I spend practicing my standing, kneeling sitting and prone technique. Accuracy also depends not only upon distance to target but also upon the prevailing conditions, indoors vs outdoors, 5mph constant wind vs 15 mph gusty wind, etc, etc.

I have also recently restored another mate's (60 year old) Diana 28, badged as a Milbro. Again, the resultant accuracy (average 1" groups at 10 yards) was not great by today's standards, but probably would be OK given the age and quality of the rifle. Notwithstanding the modest accuracy of the rifle, some friends and me had a cracking bit of fun with it one summers evening taking turns to plink at beer cans with it.

So while I would normally proclaim to the world that accuracy is everything when it comes to shooting, I think fun should not forgotten either.
 
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sagalout said:
Pellet on pellet needs to be defined. For me, using 0.177, a 5mm edge to edge group at 40m outdoors is a dream.

At 28m outdoors I have done a 5mm edge to edge once, 6mm a handful of times, 7 to 10mm are more normal for me.

Normally I plink spinners and only shoot groups to test a barrel.
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Love the crack of a well hit spinner at any distance
 
Ascham said:
To define acceptable accuracy, one must first define the context.

I serviced a friend's old, battered and abused BSA meteor about 10 years ago. I reckon it was manufactured in the early '80s. The rifle had been used on the friend's family farm since it was acquired for ratting and bagging the occasional squirrel and pigeon.

I had fond memories of my own .22 Super Meteor which I got around 1978, which perhaps gave me some rose tinted glasses. While I achieved everything I had hoped when servicing my friend's meteor, I was a bit disappointed by the resultant accuracy - I could do no better on a consistent basis than average 1 " groups at about 15 yards with open sights (I could not get a telescopic sight and mounts to sit securely in the dovetails).

Reflecting on the accuracy of the rifle, I realised that for close up rat control in a barn, the accuracy of the rifle was probably good enough. I also came to realise the rifle was probably performing as expected, and it would be unreasonable to expect it to give the same accuracy as a modern high quality break barrel, let alone a high quality underlever or PCP.

The same applies to every other aspect of defining accuracy - whether the rifle is shot bench rest style, off sticks, prone supported, kneeling, sitting, etc etc. All will test the rifle's accuracy but will also test the shooter's skill, to different degrees. Sometimes I think we focus more on our rifles than ourselves as it easier to think there must be a shortcoming with our equipment than ourselves. I certainly spend much more time tinkering with my rifles and then testing them by shooting them rested than I spend practicing my standing, kneeling sitting and prone technique. Accuracy also depends not only upon distance to target but also upon the prevailing conditions, indoors vs outdoors, 5mph constant wind vs 15 mph gusty wind, etc, etc.

I have also recently restored another mate's (60 year old) Diana 28, badged as a Milbro. Again, the resultant accuracy (average 1" groups at 10 yards) was not great by today's standards, but probably would be OK given the age and quality of the rifle. Notwithstanding the modest accuracy of the rifle, some friends and me had a cracking bit of fun with it one summers evening taking turns to plink at beer cans with it.

So while I would normally proclaim to the world that accuracy is everything when it comes to shooting, I think fun should not forgotten either.
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My first ‘modern’ air rifle was an HW77 which I bought in 1986. Honestly, I’d be lucky if I hit a 2” group at 40 yards with it (rested). A few years later, I started reading about PCPs and p/ex’d the 77 for a Theoben Rapid 7 (still got it). Could not believe how suddenly I could achieve tiny groups at the same distance. The gun definitely makes a difference but, the nut behind the stock still needs fine tuning.
 
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