Which pistol next?

[rockdrill]

The HW75 sights are no good for the targets I mentioned if you use a centre hold though, even using a 6 o’clock hold they’re still no good as the black extends out to the 6 ring which at 10m you'd have to be a really bad shot to be aiming that low

Just to check, you do understand that if you are using a 6 o'clock hold on the black, your sights will need to be set up so the shot impacts high i.e. at the centre of the 10 ring.

 

[Rich T]

Just to check, you do understand that if you are using a 6 o'clock hold on the black, your sights will need to be set up so the shot impacts high i.e. at the centre of the 10 ring.

Yes thank you, I’ve been shooting for over 40 years, some of those professionally, I don’t need any lessons on how to shoot.
I use the centre hold and as I said I find the black sights on the HW75 hard to use on those type of targets, so I’m going to paint the front sight, I really can’t understand why you’re struggling to understand that.
You might want to check your understanding of the 6 o’clock hold as I’m not convinced you fully do.
Enjoy your shooting!

 

[Inca]

the black extends out to the 6 ring which at 10m you'd have to be a really bad shot to be aiming that low

I really not understanding something here. I always shoot at 6 o’clock, ie the edge of the black six ring and ‘white’ 5 ring with my sights adjusted so my POI is ten (hopefully) with that POA. Why does that make me a ‘really bad shot’?

 

[Inca]

You might want to check your understanding of the 6 o’clock hold as I’m not convinced you fully do.

Happy to be told what the 6 o’clock hold is cos it sounds like I’ve been doing something wrong for the last 5 years.

 

[jev]

I've always learned 6 o'clock hold is a bit different from sub-6. With a sub-6, there should be a bit of white visible between the black 7-circle and the white 8 while the front sight touches the black in the 6 o'clock hold:

 

[Inca]

Black 7 and white 6 (not 8) @jev but what you’re saying is right IMHO. Another sub 6 technique I’ve read about (on here) is the gap between the fore and one side of the rear should be the same as the gap between the black and the fore sight. I’m trying that currently with my LP-10 rested and it’s got some merit.

 

[rockdrill]

I use the centre hold and as I said I find the black sights on the HW75 hard to use on those type of targets, so I’m going to paint the front sight, I really can’t understand why you’re struggling to understand that.

Exactly where did I say I didn't understand it?

I had already figured from your initial comment it was likely you were using a centre hold, which makes black sight on black target more difficult to accurately define.

Hence why I indicated the sights were intended for a six o'clock hold on a bullseye target.

 

[jev]

Black 7 and white 6 (not 8)

Oops

Anyway, let me see if I understand that correctly, you're saying that X should equal Y?


Because the light slits in the sight picture aren't always comparable between different weapons. Some are really small with hardly any light visible between front and back sights whilst others are wider.

 

[Inca]

Exactly. That’s one of the techniques I’ve read about on AGF. I’m trying it rested with my Steyr, my eyesight is too shot to get the best out of it but it has merit. It helps having an adjustable width rear window.

 

[Rich T]

I really not understanding something here. I always shoot at 6 o’clock, ie the edge of the black six ring and ‘white’ 5 ring with my sights adjusted so my POI is ten (hopefully) with that POA. Why does that make me a ‘really bad shot’?

The 6 o’clock hold has nothing to do with the’6 ring’, traditionally the 6 o’clock hold is where the top of your front sight is on the lower part of the bullseye circle, the idea is to give you a clearer picture with the intent being that you’ve set your gun up so your POI is then in the centre of the bullseye.
A centre hold is where the top of your front sight cuts the bullseye in half horizontally, and finally there is the combat where your sight covers the bullseye.
Which one you use is entirely down to personal preference and like any shooting the only thing that matters is hitting what you’re aiming at, a lot of people use the 6 o’clock because they can see the bullseye clearer.
If you are aiming at the 6 ring you then increase the chances of missing the bullseye by a larger margin if you are only a slightly bit out of line with the centre, and a tiny fraction of a millimetre at the edge of the 6 ring will increase to where you’ve ‘zeroed’ your pistol at slightly under 6cms above in the bullseye, I don’t know the exact maths but it’s similar to using a rifle sight where 1mm at the muzzle could mean 1cm, 10cm, off at the target depending on distance.
That’s what I mean.
On top of that the 6 o’clock is also taught for centre fire weapons to counteract movement from recoil and for some peoples natural ‘snatch’ when shooting (that’s where the barrel rises as they pull the trigger back).

This has become a debate from a simple comment I made about my own opinion about the sights on my own gun and my personal preferences for it, I have no intention on getting anymore involved in a discussion about target shooting.

Happy shooting everyone

 

[Inca]

Thanks for that explanation @Rich T, a good write up. I’ve never understood 6 o’clock to anything other than the junction of the 7/8 ring (or there abouts). In my personal circumstance the complete black is just a blurred mess and finding the centre of a blur isn’t possible. I’ve learnt something tonight but will have to stick to my 7/8 6 o’clock. That said I’ll be giving your explanation a thorough read through tomorrow.

Stick with us, challenging individual ideas help us all to learn.

 

[Rich T]

No problem @Inca hope it makes sense, I’m sure you could find an explanation of the 6 o’clock via a Google search that’ll explain it better than I.
I once worked with a young lady who was left handed but right eye dominant, she shot a right handed rifle, left handed using her right eye lying at right angles! She was a brilliant shot, it used to make me smile when a new instructor would come along and try and correct her method
Go with whatever works best for you, that’s all that matters.

 

[Skorpion 660]

Well, it's got a little heated recently hasn't it....

One of the things I love about shooting is the many new things there are to learn, I've tried different styles of scopes, many different rifles, all sorts of aids, different approaches to range finding etc etc and now Pistol shooting!

I understand for 10m target shooting I should be using the 6 o'clock position but as I stated am currently using 'centre mass' as I'm enjoying shooting 15 and 20mm spinners and this is how I've shot my spring rifles with open sights. I trust that's logical? I'm confident I can revert back to 6 o'clock when I need to.

I'm now learning about 'bulk fill Co2 pistols' and charging from a fire extinguisher thanks to previous comments and suggestions. At first I thought this was witch craft and not the done thing but after some great video's added previously and some research this now makes sense and the recycling aspect of the out of date extinguishers appeals to me however at the moment I can't see it being any cheaper than PCP as I've not found a Co2 pistol for sale and I know where I can get extinguishers but it means travelling where as I have a Hill pump and a dive cylinder for my collection of PCP rifles. Also this would mean additional items, the extinguisher and fill adaptor. It might be that I go down this route if I happen across a gun at the right price.

My original question of 'Which pistol next' was because of my experience in my 20's of owning an ASI Compact (second hand) which went back to the RFD a couple of times when the seals went before me giving up on pistol shooting and then very recently (30 years later) getting another second hand Gamo Compact which had been bought cheap because it needed seals, up and running. I suspected the Compact would be unreliable as before only this time rather than give up on the gun and pistol shooting I intend to stick with the pistol shooting..... Now having put about 250 pellets through the Gamo Compact with no problems in my last session it now leaks when cocked! Am I just unlucky with the Compact or is this typical? Is this typical of SSP? I'm ready to write off SSP all together.

I am now ready for the next pistol, no rush but ready.

Thanks for all the contributions so far.

 

[rockdrill]

Am I just unlucky with the Compact or is this typical? Is this typical of SSP? I'm ready to write off SSP all together.

I would be inclined to say you have been unlucky with them as by and large they seem to get pretty favourable comments about them.

The few examples that have passed through my hands were pretty good and had no issues.

The only SSP pistols I currently have are a Daisy 777 and an HW75, these both shoot pretty well too.

Eventually I would like to get a nice example of a FAS 604, but not in a position to grab one yet.

 

[rockdrill]

I understand for 10m target shooting I should be using the 6 o'clock position but as I stated am currently using 'centre mass' as I'm enjoying shooting 15 and 20mm spinners and this is how I've shot my spring rifles with open sights. I trust that's logical? I'm confident I can revert back to 6 o'clock when I need to.

If your targets aren't black in colour it makes no odds as it is easy enough to see them as they don't merge with black sights. It is when you are aiming at a solid black bullseye target that the 6 o'clock hold is beneficial.

I'm now learning about 'bulk fill Co2 pistols' and charging from a fire extinguisher thanks to previous comments and suggestions. At first I thought this was witch craft and not the done thing but after some great video's added previously and some research this now makes sense and the recycling aspect of the out of date extinguishers appeals to me however at the moment I can't see it being any cheaper than PCP as I've not found a Co2 pistol for sale and I know where I can get extinguishers but it means travelling where as I have a Hill pump and a dive cylinder for my collection of PCP rifles. Also this would mean additional items, the extinguisher and fill adaptor. It might be that I go down this route if I happen across a gun at the right price.

Bulk fill CO2 pistols won't just be falling out of the woodwork, but when they do pop up they tend to be way cheaper than their more modern HPA equivalents.

Depending on how much shooting you do, a 7kg fire extinguisher will likely give you over a years worth of shooting before a replacement is needed.

 

[mike8]

Skorpion. The problem with the gamo seems to be that the part the compressium tube slides onto is plastic. It looks like plastic at least.

On guns like hw 40 and 75 this part is metal.

 

[Skorpion 660]

Yes, I think I've seen 3 variations of that, mine looks identical but I suspect mine is threaded in to the compression tube.
There are also 2 variations of the valve, I have recently bought the later version (only £18.50 from Knibbs) to see if that is an improvement but it is a larger diameter and so not interchangeable.
I have shot the Compact again since finding it's leaking and it is still producing 2.2fpe with Excites Eco2 presumably as long I don't wait too long between cocking and firing I can continue using it for the mo. You never know it may heal!.... It's still fun for now until the next pistol comes along, I just need an idea of what to look for in the next pistol.

 

[mike8]

If its leaking it could be the green seal shown. Or its equivalent on the other valves. Or the piston seal. Or the valve seal that supposed to keep everything i side until you pull the trigger.

Or some crack somewhere

 

[mike8]

Maybe spray on some oil when its still open/half cocked but is building pressure. See where its bubbling

 

[mike8]

If you want a better built gamo. Then the hw75 is it. I didn't like mine though. I would have to correct som many things on it. And i knew immediately that this would never ever shoot as good as a real competition gun. Even one from 1965 so i got one from 1965