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Time for an EV?

From a mechanical viewpoint I would wholeheartedly agree, but from an electrical perspective an EV is far more complex.
Lazy designer gets just ported the decades old 12V gubbins across like for like though. So you have all the fancy new tech on the HV side but the reliability of of a 1978 Ford Transit as without a bog standard 12V battery you are going nowhere.

12V batteries are designed for high starting current loads (starter motors/heavy flywheels/cranks etc.) and regular deep discharge cycles topped back up by the alternator.

EVs have no starter motors or engines to turn over and the 12V battery therefore does virtually no work and the discharge re-charge curve creates sulfation and causes premature failure of the 12V batteries. Even though you may have 70% in the lithium cell an EV will not start if the 12V battery is dead. Crap design.

In an ICE car a 12V battery could last 10 years in an EV or HEV it can be as low as 2 to 3 years.
 
I agree with you, I would go further and say PHEV and self charging HEVs are even more complex than an EV, certainly the ones we have had (Toyota and Honda) were. They had ICE engines, one or more electric motors, high voltage battery packs and petrol tanks and a complicated transmission system that was driven by both ICE and electric power simultaneously or individually as the 'computers' decided.
In a Toyota HEV the ICE does not drive anything it simply generates electricity to supplement the batteries. There is no gearbox. All drive is electrical via the electric motor(s). I have a RAV4 HEV.
 
In a Toyota HEV the ICE does not drive anything it simply generates electricity to supplement the batteries. There is no gearbox. All drive is electrical via the electric motor(s). I have a RAV4 HEV.

Yep. Its an amazing design.

I made 420.000 km on my old G2 Prius between 2006-2022 without any issues and now I have done 200.000 km on the present Yaris.

Its pretty much tires, shock absorbers, brakes and on the Prius the rear part of the exhaust.

Everything electrical and HEV related was and has always been rock solid.
 
rain has no noticeable effect
Nope, not true. Of course, temperature plays a role. In my ioniq, 210km range in summer, 195 in winter conditions. That's not even 10% difference.

Having said that, in the rain, instead of 100 mi in the above case, not even 60 in a rainy night. 10% off (maybe 15% in the kia) due to temperature, the rest was due to rain. Torrential rain from time to time, sure.

I noticed it in my Hyundai ioniq too, as well as with the number of Tesla's I drove for work. Rain increases air resistance more than you'ld expect. The resistance at 60 mi/h will increase by as much as 10 - 15%. In addition, a lightly whet road has an increased rolling resistance of 5 - 15%, a very whet road 20 - 50%. There's enough documentation out there on the topic if you're interested.
 
Yep. Its an amazing design.

I made 420.000 km on my old G2 Prius between 2006-2022 without any issues and now I have done 200.000 km on the present Yaris.

Its pretty much tires, shock absorbers, brakes and on the Prius the rear part of the exhaust.

Everything electrical and HEV related was and has always been rock solid.
Well it's Toyota what do you expect. (y) Shame the RAV4 is apparently becoming one of the most stolen cars though - apparently there is a weakness in the canbus security which makes it easy to start them without a key or needing to copy anything.
 
In a Toyota HEV the ICE does not drive anything it simply generates electricity to supplement the batteries. There is no gearbox. All drive is electrical via the electric motor(s). I have a RAV4 HEV.
You are referring to a series hybrid. I thought Toyota uses a series-parallel system similar to the Lexus I owned?
 
In a Toyota HEV the ICE does not drive anything it simply generates electricity to supplement the batteries. There is no gearbox. All drive is electrical via the electric motor(s). I have a RAV4 HEV.
Yaris Cross has e-CVT transmission which allows both the ICE & electric motor to propel the car.....electric up to 30MPH (if enough charge in the battery) before the petrol engine kicks in.
 
Yaris Cross has e-CVT transmission which allows both the ICE & electric motor to propel the car.....electric up to 30MPH (if enough charge in the battery) before the petrol engine kicks in.
The petrol engine in my Toyota only drives the generator which produces electricity to charge the batteries and power the front and rear electric motors.
 
"Should stop for a break every X miles or Y time anyway" is a personal take.

An HGV driver can legally drive for 4.5 hours without taking a break. Driving an HGV is more demanding than driving a car. Air traffic controllers are allowed to be on duty for 2 hour stints. I doubt driving just a car should require that much mental focus / strain.

I personally have no problem driving 350 miles while towing the caravan or boat, I might stop to use the toilet at a services but that's all. It is more taxing driving while towing the caravan or boat than it is driving when not towing, 350 miles without a break when not towing is no problem at all.

I really wouldn't want to have 'breaks' enforced on me by lack of vehicle range and long recharge times. When I've owned petrol cars that had less than 250 miles range in the past I stopped to refuel on longer drivers but refuelling only took a few minutes, I refuelled, paid, and set off again immediately.

Sometimes when range is discussed EVers say "You should be taking a M minute break every X hours of driving anyway, your car can be recharging during that time". I think well maybe you need M minutes break every X hours of driving, I have no problem driving for X + 2 hours without a break and M minutes would be at least inconvenient. Not to mention that if I towed with an EV that had supposed R range the actual range while towing would be much lower than R and I'd have multiple M sessions imposed on me by the car. Then for some places I go there would be nowhere to recharge at the destination.

When I was a kid I used to like the Logan's Run TV series and particulary like the electric hover cars. I knew it wasn't possible to make anything like the hover car but I used to build 'trolleys' (soap box cars) using pram wheels and wanted to make one that was battery powered and could carry a few mates. We used to take trolleys all over the place, call around for other friends who lived a couple of miles away by pulling them along the causeway (or ride on them on downhill strteches). It seemed it'd be OK and legal to drive an electric powered trolley carrying a few mates along causeways all the way to the seaside hehe. I imagined using a car engine starter motor and car battery(s). My dad said the starter motor would overheat and flatten the battery(s) too quick, I worked out that a few car windscreen wiper motors suitably geared and multiple car batteries would do quite a few miles in theory but the mutiple batteries would be heavy and we'd need to upgrade to proper wheels. If we took our own battery charger we could charge wherever there was electricity and at that time you could prise off the cover from most street lights and tap into power from them so we'd always be able to get a charge even in the case we were daring enough to knock on people's doors to ask if we could plug our trolley in for a charge and nobody let us. Besides the engineering problems (when you're a young kid) other problems included the weight and cost of the batteries and the amount of time we'd be camped out beside a power point waiting for the recharge. I discussed all this with dad who told me a pint of petrol has more power than all the car batteries I could carry on a trolley and I could instead think about fitting a little engine on the trolley and carrying just a gallon of petrol, less weight and more sustained power over longer ranges. I liked the engine idea but at the time it seemed it'd be illegal to drive something engine powered on the causeway but legal to drive something electric powered. The trolley I was thinking about would be like a little campervan made of wood with a roof etc, me and my mates inside and seats would change into bunk beds. I never did make anything like the camper trolley or battery powered but I did convert an old go-kart to be powered by an old electric sewing machine 240v motor using some kind of little gearbox dad had knocking around. The problem with the 240v go-kart was the extension lead running from the garage to the go-kart severely limiting range and getting tangled hehe. Dad seemed willing to help us fit an engine on a trolley but nothing came of it, he did help us get as far as fitting proper steering with a steering wheel to one trolley instead of having the usual rope steering setup. Looking back it seems some of the problems I was trying to solve back then totally went away when I was old enough to start thinking about driving proper cars with engines, no need to think about carrying mates in a trolley on causeways when you know you'll soon be old enough to have a real car and drive it on motorways etc, then it all seemed to come back again with the rise of EV's and all the concerns are now mainstream talking points rather than just slightly nerdy kid interest points lol. The problem for me would still be range and long charge times, especially when towing. Also if it's no cheaper to recharge an EV away from home than to refuel my car away from home I'd be spending money on a more expensive EV while not benefitting from cheaper per mile fuel costs.
I personally have no problem driving 350 miles while towing the caravan or boat, I might stop to use the toilet at a services but that's all. It is more taxing driving while towing the caravan or boat than it is driving when not towing, 350 miles without a break when not towing is no problem at all.

Perhaps not but all the poor buggers stuck behind wish you'd take a break every 5 mins :ROFLMAO:
 
Why are BEV owners so sensitive to any sort of factual criticism towards battery cars? 😄
Because 99% of time it's non-EV owners making the criticism or as Einstein once said "Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance." :rolleyes:
 
I find this. Once they buy an ev and can work out KW/h's they become car experts and cant take anyone still enjoying normal cars. These experts cant even change a tyre and have to call other men to do there mans work but hey ho.
Ok if you've got a few days to spare, I'll take you through the benefits and drawbacks of both IC & BEV, knowledge gained over 35 years being trained by some of the largest MHE manufacturers in the world on diesel, LPG (petrol) and electric fork trucks and guess what..... battery electric fork trucks are now taking over from IC trucks in most applications because they're quieter, cleaner, breakdown less, need less servicing and are cheaper to run 😉

It shouldn't be "which is best IC or EV", it should be which one suits your needs best, so please stop with the "I'd never have one" or "EV's are crap" and perhaps more "EV's don't suite me because...".
 
Looks you have nominated yourself as the EV expert then lol.

You do know the avg car now is much bigger nowaday and all old smaller cars had spares no issue. Its not lack of space its cost/weight saving to achieve lower tax brackets/better mpg/kwh figures.

You do also know those same engineers who made these great wet belt solutions are the same designers that still work in those car comps and are now designing the leccy stuff. Just because its an EV does not mean its free from bad design. Design is based mostly on price and time now and not quality and durability. Thats in every type of product everywhere. EV is not better just because its an EV. Have you seen the underside of a 3yo BYD. Worse than a 20 year honda lol
Really :ROFLMAO:, EV drive trains (motors, inverters & transmission) are not designed by the IC engine designers, they're totally different departments and personnel.
 
Because 99% of time it's non-EV owners making the criticism or as Einstein once said "Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance." :rolleyes:
That's a mighty big assumption that people who criticise EVs have never owned or driven one.
 
Nope, not true. Of course, temperature plays a role. In my ioniq, 210km range in summer, 195 in winter conditions. That's not even 10% difference.

Having said that, in the rain, instead of 100 mi in the above case, not even 60 in a rainy night. 10% off (maybe 15% in the kia) due to temperature, the rest was due to rain. Torrential rain from time to time, sure.

I noticed it in my Hyundai ioniq too, as well as with the number of Tesla's I drove for work. Rain increases air resistance more than you'ld expect. The resistance at 60 mi/h will increase by as much as 10 - 15%. In addition, a lightly whet road has an increased rolling resistance of 5 - 15%, a very whet road 20 - 50%. There's enough documentation out there on the topic if you're interested.
Its not just due to temperature. Conventional engines suffer poorer fuel economy in wet driving conditions. Even though you might not notice much, in city driving in the wet, your grip is limited and there is slippage or wheelspin under acceleration. My Volvo V70 did very poorly in wet conditions and my fuel economy sucked.
 
Its not just due to temperature.
Exactly my point. The difference between an ICE and an EV is in the range and in the fact that topping up an ICE is not nearly as invasive to the perceived comfort of an undisturbed drive than it is for an EV. Also, the inefficiency of an ICE "suffers" less from environmental conditions than the efficient EV. E.g., heating in an ICE hardly costs extra energy; heat is an inherent byproduct of burning fuel whereas electric heating immediately costs extra energy.
 
Exactly my point. The difference between an ICE and an EV is in the range and in the fact that topping up an ICE is not nearly as invasive to the perceived comfort of an undisturbed drive than it is for an EV. Also, the inefficiency of an ICE "suffers" less from environmental conditions than the efficient EV. E.g., heating in an ICE hardly costs extra energy; heat is an inherent byproduct of burning fuel whereas electric heating immediately costs extra energy.
Problem with front wheel drive in the wet is wheelspin and under steer. Anyone who's had a pretty powerful V70 front wheel drive will tell you the same. You spend more time keeping them on the road surface than worrying about fuel consumption.
All cars lose traction in the wet to a varying degree depending on the vehicle and like you said driving through water also creates resistance that wasn't there before.
 
Problem with front wheel drive in the wet is wheelspin and under steer. Anyone who's had a pretty powerful V70 front wheel drive will tell you the same. You spend more time keeping them on the road surface than worrying about fuel consumption.
All cars lose traction in the wet to a varying degree depending on the vehicle and like you said driving through water also creates resistance that wasn't there before.
I had an 850 T5 estate and it suffered badly from torque steer , it was skittish on snow too.
 
Well im currently toying with the idea of getting a Renault 5 E-tech later in the year,most probably on a 2 year lease plan.
I'm still looking for some decent deals & as its going to be a new car with warranty i probably wont go for a maintenance pack
 
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