HW98 Vortek upgrade - lube?

[IrJim]

The twang and vibration on my .22 HW98 has gotten to being a distraction and hinderance. Rather than improving with the passage of time it has gotten worse - accuracy is beginning to suffer . It’s time to ditch the OEM innards!

I had my mucho twanging and vibrating HW77 tuned by Tony Burton with an Vortek kit years ago and it transformed the rifle. Sadly Tony no longer does tuning nor Vortek products.

I’ve a Vortek kit ready to upgrade for the upgrade, the kit comes supplied with its own grease. Should I proceed with the supplied lube or go for an alternative? Whittled down the options to either TbT Bum-Slide & M&M Adv Moly.

And, what would be best used to lube barrel axis bolt assembly, shims and barrel detent chisel?

This is my first attempt at tuning a springer - it’s going to be my confidence builder before I attempt my problem child HW30’s

 

[Danthepainter]

Yesterday I put a Vortek kit in my 99. That red super heavy grease that's included is perfectly fine. It's actually Almagard 3752, an 'open gear' lubricant. The spring guide is already lubed internally with it. Go easy as one pot has done two kits and I've only used a half of it.
High moly as you mention above will work on the high load areas.
The spring will probably need shortening so be aware of that and use a chrono. I left the 99 cocked for 4 hours to try to condition the spring but I've still removed 2 1/2 coils.
Good luck and take your time.

 

[IrJim]

Thanks for your response, it’s good to get feedback on a recent Vortek kit installation .
I’ll stick with the supplied lube and go for the M&M adv moly for the high load areas as advised.

I was going to chop 3/4 of a coil to begin with - I hadn’t imagined I might need to take as much as 2.5 coils .
The kit instructions suggest for each coil chopped represents a reduction of 1.5fpe.
I’ve gone for the Vortek HW vac seal as feedback seemed to be positive.

Gladly the top hat came off with relative ease - prised it off with a large flat head screwdriver, sound advice from a Vortek install post on the forum !

 

[Dirty Roach]

You will need to remove the piston sleeve before installing the Vortek kit and also give the cocking slot on the piston and the inside of the skirt a good deburr and polish so it does not rub on the outer spring guide of the Vortek kit.

The Vortek seals are good but they take a while to wear in so expect the power to creep up over time.

 

[Vard]

Be very careful chopping the vortek spring .
I found a small amount of coil being removed reduced power considerably on a.177 HW97 kit . Would only take 1/3 of a coil off at a time if I were you to start. Every rifle different I suppose but remember you cannot replace what you’ve chopped off.

 

[chouchin66]

The twang and vibration on my .22 HW98 has gotten to being a distraction and hinderance. Rather than improving with the passage of time it has gotten worse - accuracy is beginning to suffer . It’s time to ditch the OEM innards!

I had my mucho twanging and vibrating HW77 tuned by Tony Burton with an Vortek kit years ago and it transformed the rifle. Sadly Tony no longer does tuning nor Vortek products.

I’ve a Vortek kit ready to upgrade for the upgrade, the kit comes supplied with its own grease. Should I proceed with the supplied lube or go for an alternative? Whittled down the options to either TbT Bum-Slide & M&M Adv Moly.

And, what would be best used to lube barrel axis bolt assembly, shims and barrel detent chisel?

This is my first attempt at tuning a springer - it’s going to be my confidence builder before I attempt my problem child HW30’s

Krytox. 205

 

[Plinky Dave]

Vortek kits are very good, I have one in a 85 and 30. Supplied lube also good for the springs as instructed. Before any cuts are made, assuming you’re close to the target output, ensure you scrag the spring by cocking and leaving (safety) overnight.
A good debur of the piston innards and cut cautiously are also top tips

 

[IrJim]

Thanks for the advice - I had thought of lopping off 3/4 of a coil straight away, but after Vard suggested only a 1/3 of a coil at a time I’m now going for an install of the spring uncut and scragging the spring overnight as you’ve suggested.
I’d sooner have the ‘right’ spring length than have to add in the supplied piston weights after I’ve gotten rid of the OEM weights from the piston which have likely been part of cause of the fluctuating accuracy.

I’ve invested in some quality diamond needle files and shall take the time to debur everything and polish the piston.

 

[Gat Man]

Is it the Vortek kit that has a uniqe type of spring guide, more like a sleeve?

Always wondered if it performs any better than a regular guide?

 

[Vard]

If you have a dremel the concave grinding stones you can get for them are perfect for rounding the end of the spring after you’ve cut it.

 

[Plinky Dave]

Is it the Vortek kit that has a uniqe type of spring guide, more like a sleeve?

Always wondered if it performs any better than a regular guide?

It’s got the inner rear guide, like normal but shorter and wider also an outer sleeve/guide at the rear. The outer guide “slips” up the inside of the piston on compression and with the top hat totally eliminates any spring movement.

Here’s a recent pic of a PG2 kit from my HW 30. The later kits PG4 have a steel outer sleeve and a stepped top hat which I think was introduced on the PG3 version ( I could be wrong on that bit)

 

[P8X]

I've fitted quite a few Vortek PG4 kits
I find it easier to think of cutting to overall length, than thinking in terms of coils
I can't imagine any situation, where you'd need to install a full length spring. They'll definitely need cutting to some degree, depending where you want to end up.

On HW break barrels, I'd also strongly advise that before attempting any fit up, you thoroughly deburr, the inside of the slot in the piston.
These piston slots look like they are stamped out, with some very blunt tooling and have horrific burrs inside.
If not attended to, properly, they will mark the outer steel guide very badly

 

[Gat Man]

Ah right
Gotcha
So effectively the guide kit has a fixed piston sleeve incorporated
Great idea

It’s got the inner rear guide, like normal but shorter and wider also an outer sleeve/guide at the rear. The outer guide “slips” up the inside of the piston on compression and with the top hat totally eliminates any spring movement.

 

[Danthepainter]

I should have added that the amount you need to remove will vary between rifles. The PG4 kit that I put in my mk2 77 only needed 1 coil off which I did in 1/4 coil increments.

 

[Bren]

I fitted a PG3 Metal kit (pretty much the same as a PG4) to my 97 with a VacSeal, its bang on the power I wanted with the supplied length spring, 11.3fpe with AADF’s, but I’m expecting it to rise as it all beds in, so I’m keeping a very close eye on the power for now

 

[Danthepainter]

Anyone know if Vortek springs are scragged i.e. compressed to their working length?

 

[Plinky Dave]

Anyone know if Vortek springs are scragged i.e. compressed to their working length?

Dan, as far my experience goes I’d say no. I didn’t scragg my PG4 kit for a 85 , after cutting to achive the required output and after some use the power dropped, I brought it back with one of the supplied pl washers . I think it’s worth checking particularly as a few mm can make quite a difference with the vortek spring.

 

[Danthepainter]

Dan, as far my experience goes I’d say no. I didn’t scragg my PG4 kit for a 85 , after cutting to achive the required output and after some use the power dropped, I brought it back with one of the supplied pl washers . I think it’s worth checking particularly as a few mm can make quite a difference with the vortek spring.

The 99 kit has no washers. How long would you scragg a spring for?

 

[Plinky Dave]

The 99 kit has no washers. How long would you scragg a spring for?

I cocked mine and left it overnight to ensure no further in use shrinking. I even did the same on advice from Tomy Leach when building 22mm piston conversion in a rifle a few years ago, brand new TX spring lost 3mm overnight.

Edit: I also put a big red flag in the barrel to remind me that I’ve cocked it, just in case

 

[moodsy74]

Hi Jim, I am facing the same dilemma and would like to ask your opinion on the Vortek kit for the HW98. Did it improve your rifle and get rid of the twang and buzz?. Did the supplied spring fit or did you have to cut a coil off in order to achieve power?. Also I am wondering if I actually need a full power rifle as I think a lower power springer is easier to shoot and maybe eliminate the buzz in the process? what is your opinion mate? My rifle is in .177 flavour and currently has a TBT kit installed but it does not sound nice so I am thinking of lowering the power to around 8/9 foot pounds from 10.5......... Any recommendations guys what shall I do??. I have other toys to play with so there is no urgency I would just like some opinions on what to do to make it quieter please. One love Ali