HNOGD - Titan MPT ?

[alexall]

Congrats - I've just been wanting one since the 90's. I'm not jealous really ! Great handling little rifles that are light with delicious contours.

Back then, I comforted myself by buying anything affordable 'around' the gun but the gun itself as the gun remained unaffordable. I even bought the 2 shot finger for the 'pellet in waiting' as these MPT's first only came in single shot format. The later model became the MPT2 with the finger in place.

I still got a set of the 'finger' somewhere still in its original packaging to remind myself what is outstanding in my bucket list.

I can see it being a great rifle. Enjoy.

See, I have most of the compact range except..

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[junglie2022]

It was a tad noisy

Yep with that short barrel for sure, sound like a .22 lr.

 

[John E]

Congrats - I've just been wanting one since the 90's. I'm not jealous really ! Great handling little rifles that are light with delicious contours.

Back then, I comforted myself by buying anything affordable 'around' the gun but the gun itself as the gun remained unaffordable. I even bought the 2 shot finger for the 'pellet in waiting' as these MPT's first only came in single shot format. The later model became the MPT2 with the finger in place.

I still got a set of the 'finger' somewhere still in its original packaging to remind myself what is outstanding in my bucket list.

I can see it being a great rifle. Enjoy.

See, I have most of the compact range except..

That a pretty cool collection for sure I had read about the 2 shot thing but never seen one , To be fair I dont recall seeing or hearing about the Titan MPT until I lucked into this one last week . I do feel some pangs of guilt that there appears to be quite a few chaps who have coveted these for over 30 years and I now have one and didnt even know about them .
I'm trying to read and understand as much as possible and get a feel for rarity . I really love it and its giving me a great deal of enjoyment , perhaps ultimately it should be treasured by a collector .

Im just starting to appreciate the handling , today I moved the scope forwards and I have dropped the butt a little and the MPT now pops right into position instinctively . Early days but it feels like a really easy scoped rifle to get a good natural eyeball on the target , the cheek position feels intuitive .

I have the original instruction manual with this one too , that adds something .

I gather these were not built for long and at around the Time John Bowkett parted from Titan . I'm not an early adopter of technology , back in 1992 I was shooting my BSA's and in particular a nice Supersport .

This rifle looks and feels special , It has a handbuild quality , yet ergonomically it feels advanced , perhaps too in its semi bullpup configuration . I Have seen it written that there is a connection with CS stocks?

How desirable was the MPT compared to other models ? Why is it still so sought after ? Design ? rarity ? nostalgia ?

Hopefully will get it down the range soon and do some proper testing .

 

[junglie2022]

To be honest my first pcp was a titan long action manitou in late 1990 & I've not had a more accurate one since, they just get more expensive & complicated (more to go wrong imho)

 

[alexall]

My memory was the FN12 being my very first pcp around 1991 straight out from Uni and with my first pay cheque. A forced sale during the banking crises due to the bad timing of setting up a business just months prior to the event. That same business have now afforded me an entire collection so it was a sound investment.

I therefore have a soft spot for them. I bought my first on merit and I can still appreciate all that appealed to me. It hard to beat its size and wait with a Lothar Walther barrel second to none. It may not have the slickest mag or cycle but it's plenty good enough and still doing a great job. I was not shy buying another as they stood the test of time.

The MPT came a few years after. It asked for a hefty premium and I remembered it was not a premium I was willing to pay. The MPT was first introduced as a single shot but by then there were plenty with magazine actions. Even Titan/Falcon did magazines but for simplicity, the MPT was launched as a single shot. So was a 'Bearcat'.

I remembered it became fashionable for the need to have a back up shot to appease those with magazines, so Webley introduce the Viper and Raider with 2 shot tray. To follow, the MPT2 was released with improvements and most notably the follow up 2nd shot finger. Here is mine on the right and is fitted in the loading area. To get the second shot, you first load the first pellet into the barrel ready to shoot. Then lift the finger lever to place a pellet underneath and rest it back on the pellet so when you pull back the cocking lever after the first shot, the finger presses the 'pellet in waiting' down directly into the loading channel reading for you to complete the cocking cycle. I have never used it but some says its not worth the flaff.

 

[John E]

My memory was the FN12 being my very first pcp around 1991 straight out from Uni and with my first pay cheque. A forced sale during the banking crises due to the bad timing of setting up a business just months prior to the event. That same business have now afforded me an entire collection so it was a sound investment.

I therefore have a soft spot for them. I bought my first on merit and I can still appreciate all that appealed to me. It hard to beat its size and wait with a Lothar Walther barrel second to none. It may not have the slickest mag or cycle but it's plenty good enough and still doing a great job. I was not shy buying another as they stood the test of time.

The MPT came a few years after. It asked for a hefty premium and I remembered it was not a premium I was willing to pay. The MPT was first introduced as a single shot but by then there were plenty with magazine actions. Even Titan/Falcon did magazines but for simplicity, the MPT was launched as a single shot. So was a 'Bearcat'.

I remembered it became fashionable for the need to have a back up shot to appease those with magazines, so Webley introduce the Viper and Raider with 2 shot tray. To follow, the MPT2 was released with improvements and most notably the follow up 2nd shot finger. Here is mine on the right and is fitted in the loading area. To get the second shot, you first load the first pellet into the barrel ready to shoot. Then lift the finger lever to place a pellet underneath and rest it back on the pellet so when you pull back the cocking lever after the first shot, the finger presses the 'pellet in waiting' down directly into the loading channel reading for you to complete the cocking cycle. I have never used it but some says its not worth the flaff.

Many thanks for sharing the info . Very interesting .
I have read there is a MPT review in December 1991 Airgun world magazine which would be interesting to see . I didnt realise there was such a significant crossover in time when the Falcon co existed with the Titan . I have read about issues with the Titan being copied but use that term naively as I cant find many details .
I can see the appeal of the magazines and two shot designs / accessories , particularly for hunting applications , yet I only plink and target shoot so single shot rifles really suit me and my style of shooting . Thanks for showing the the shot jobbie though , very cool !

I would imagine as a young chappie fresh out of UNi in 1991 you would have felt quite pleased with yourself having the Falcon , quite something .

 

[junglie2022]

Many thanks for sharing the info . Very interesting .
I have read there is a MPT review in December 1991 Airgun world magazine which would be interesting to see . I didnt realise there was such a significant crossover in time when the Falcon co existed with the Titan . I have read about issues with the Titan being copied but use that term naively as I cant find many details .
I can see the appeal of the magazines and two shot designs / accessories , particularly for hunting applications , yet I only plink and target shoot so single shot rifles really suit me and my style of shooting . Thanks for showing the the shot jobbie though , very cool !

I would imagine as a young chappie fresh out of UNi in 1991 you would have felt quite pleased with yourself having the Falcon , quite something .

Falcon were a distributer of "things for the weekend sir" & basically stole titan & bowketts designs. I did relent & bought a one of their lighthunters secondhand from a local shop, which I had for an afternoon. After spending an hour or two removing light surface rust from it & getting it looking better I loaded the magazine, with difficulty, then tested it to find it well over the limit. Fair play to the shop I rang them & they took it back & exchanged it for an old but well looked after AA S300, which I had for about ten years of trouble free shooting. It & my MPT were the only secondhand guns I've bought that turned out to be "bumped up" so if you are going to buy either my advice is ask for a chrono test first or take one with you & test it yourself.

 

[John E]

Falcon were a distributer of "things for the weekend sir" & basically stole titan & bowketts designs. I did relent & bought a one of their lighthunters secondhand from a local shop, which I had for an afternoon. After spending an hour or two removing light surface rust from it & getting it looking better I loaded the magazine, with difficulty, then tested it to find it well over the limit. Fair play to the shop I rang them & they took it back & exchanged it for an old but well looked after AA S300, which I had for about ten years of trouble free shooting. It & my MPT were the only secondhand guns I've bought that turned out to be "bumped up" so if you are going to buy either my advice is ask for a chrono test first or take one with you & test it yourself.

I'm pellet testing right now down the range . This MPT is bang on 11ftlbs with Air arms Diable field 16gr. The consistency is fabulous .

 

[El Caro]

The two shot device was devised by Titan Developments for their Manitou range of PCPs using as a base surplus rear open sights which were previously offered as an extra on all models and came as standard with the pistols. Falcon hijacked that as well.

 

[John E]

Had a great time learning about the MPT down the range. It certainly has character, but its charm goes way beyond that . Its efficient and really comfortable and easy to shoot.
Online views suggest filling to between 170 and 180 bar , the instruction manual says 180- 185 . Using the gauge on my bottle I filled to about 175 bar.
I used the indoor range at 20 yards today to avoid the rain . The old scope that came with it was set at 4x zoom . I have to say its wonderfully clear.
As you can see from my last post this 30+ year old rifle is capable of great consistency and Its barrel capable of great precision too.
It wasn't overly pellet fussy although I took a limited number of shots it did equally well with AaDF 16gr and AADF 18gr . It also liked RWS Hobby 11.9gr at the other end .
I took approx 75 shot from the one fill . Its beautiful at 11ftlbs with 16 gr and slightly higher with 18gr . The fps with AADF was 560 as a good average . It started to dip after about 40- 45 giid shots although the accuracy remained unchanged. At 55 shots it was running at 530 fps and about 10 ftlbs and the precision was still great and accuracy had just dropped a few mm . The attached image is 5 shots 14mm group (if I hadnt put one slightly left it would be 10mm ) taking the shot count to 60 . At this point I put away the chrono and enjoyed 15 - 20 shots plinking at 30mm spinners and some knock downs . Sometime around shot 75 the pellets were just clipping the bottom of the spinners and performance had dropped to end the session . Bearing in mind that 75 shots from a light little rifle and a drop of 15mm. At this point I chronoed again and saw 400 fps at just about 6ftlbs.

For me the handling and ergonomics of this old rifle are next level special. I shot it with a front rest . Standing offhand and elbows on the bench and it was superb . The thumbhole/ pistol grip was almost perfect for me . Just the resting of the thumb was something that required thought . The trigger blade was almost perfectly placed for my finger . So much so I'm struggling to think of one I have shot that is a better fit . The scope and cheek position worked really well for me .
The loading and cocking is delightful , it seems surreal to have a lovely straight pull cocking action with so little effort and travel and from that you get such power and accuracy.
Its quiet, but not silent . The sound is pleasing.
I was trying to think of a negative or criticism of the MPT but I can't, its impossible not to love it .

 

[alexall]

So glad you are loving it and it being a prime example.

With regret, there were some bad press when Titan became Falcon, and then ran with all the R&D designs. I do not actually know the ins and outs of the transition but would love to hear what actually happened. As always, there are 2 sides to the same coin. One side from John Bowkett and from the new owners Falcon - it takes two to tango. Was it a hi-jack or one side decided to sell and to move on?

Through my years, I have seen great engineers for not being good businessman and visa versa. It happened at Theoben. Do we accuse Weihrauch for robbing the gas ram for their 90's? It might never have been a legacy if it wasn't for the next evolution.

Shareholding and directorship are separate issues. You cannot simply oust the owner (shareholders). I do not know the position held by John Bowkett but if he was a paid designer/engineer/employee, the legal designs stays with the company as part of the R&D. I don't want to rattle cages but I'd love to hear the truthful lowdowns rather hearsay and gossips. What, who, when and where...

So when a company takes over (buy out) as a job lot, all the R&D and designs can stay within the company, and if the new company had designs for 'sights' or 'pellet in waiting', I see it a natural step to capitalise on it.

My first pcp was the FN12 but admittedly it had become Falcon by then. I missed out on the Titan era simply because of age.

The Titan MPT had been and gone before I was in the market to buy, but I do remember buying every single issue of Airgunners and Airgun World whilst at Uni and reading the review article as motivation to achieve in life.

I still have all the magazines. I took this photo of the advert from one of them. I must dig out the review. There was also another review years after as a 'vintage review'. I have not the time to scourer my library.

 

[John E]

So glad you are loving it and it being a prime example.

With regret, there were some bad press when Titan became Falcon, and then ran with all the R&D designs. I do not actually know the ins and outs of the transition but would love to hear what actually happened. As always, there are 2 sides to the same coin. One side from John Bowkett and from the new owners Falcon - it takes two to tango. Was it a hi-jack or one side decided to sell and to move on?

Through my years, I have seen great engineers for not being good businessman and visa versa. It happened at Theoben. Do we accuse Weihrauch for robbing the gas ram for their 90's? It might never have been a legacy if it wasn't for the next evolution.

Shareholding and directorship are separate issues. You cannot simply oust the owner (shareholders). I do not know the position held by John Bowkett but if he was a paid designer/engineer/employee, the legal designs stays with the company as part of the R&D. I don't want to rattle cages but I'd love to hear the truthful lowdowns rather hearsay and gossips. What, who, when and where...

So when a company takes over (buy out) as a job lot, all the R&D and designs can stay within the company, and if the new company had designs for 'sights' or 'pellet in waiting', I see it a natural step to capitalise on it.

My first pcp was the FN12 but admittedly it had become Falcon by then. I missed out on the Titan era simply because of age.

The Titan MPT had been and gone before I was in the market to buy, but I do remember buying every single issue of Airgunners and Airgun World whilst at Uni and reading the review article as motivation to achieve in life.

I still have all the magazines. I took this photo of the advert from one of them. I must dig out the review. There was also another review years after as a 'vintage review'. I have not the time to scourer my library.

View attachment 828385

Many thanks for sharing the advert and your views . There is clearly an interesting story about what occurred between Titan and Falcon . I would love to understand more about it . Hopefully I will get to find out much more about Titan and John Bowkett .

 

[El Caro]

I believe there will be a book published next year about the story of Titan Developments Ltd by this forum's Jirushi.

 

[El Caro]

Hopefully I will get to find out much more about Titan and John Bowkett .

Visit the Facebook John Bowkett Official Fanpage for loads of information and photos of rifles he has made and designed for other companies over 40 years. You dont have to join facebook.

 

[John E]

Visit the Facebook John Bowkett Official Fanpage for loads of information and photos of rifles he has made and designed for other companies over 40 years. You dont have to join facebook.

Many thanks El Caro , I have been reading his official fan page over the last few days . No doubt he has made some great Rifles . Its so interesting the rifles he has tweeked and the " specials " .
I would be interested if Louis does produce the Book about John Bowkett and hopefully the man himself may even contribute.