Hunting Dealing with pigeons.

[Blue-boy]

I have some dwarf fruit trees in my garden, my pear last year had a lot of tiny fruits appearing but when I looked several days later they had all gone. Had no idea what happened & until yesterday no idea where my fruit had gone. Yesterday I saw a wood pigeon in my cherry tree taking the green pips, not even anywhere being big & ripe so guess the pigeons take them & swallow them whole.

I put netting over the cherry & now they are paying attention to the pear again, as much as I don’t want to kill anything they are not robbing me of my annual fruit supply so don’t see I have much choice.

My garden is quite small, only about 8 metres from back of the house, I have open fields at the back of my house after the fence, the rifles I have are all scoped & given the room I think it’s unlikely I would have enough time to shoot them quickly so am thinking open sight rifle. I have thought budget but really prefer something a bit more quality. I see Weihrauch do a HW 77 that has open sights, also an HW 57. Both under lever which I prefer, are these suitable & what’s the difference between the two. Thanks for any advice anyone can give. What sort of money are these rifles second hand.

 

[joe average]

I would study the general license before worrying what sort of money HW77 's cost

 

[Blue-boy]

I would study the general license before worrying what sort of money HW77 's cost

Am I not allowed to deal with these in my garden if they are being a nuisance, I don’t shoot anything & never have & really don’t want to now. I know pellets must not leave my property but never read General Licence as had no need to.

 

[Sarge]

Am I not allowed to deal with these in my garden if they are being a nuisance, I don’t shoot anything & never have & really don’t want to now. I know pellets must not leave my property but never read General Licence as had no need to.

No you're not.

But get permission from the farmer behind to stop the pigeons taking his crops.

 

[Vy Rark Orro]

My interpretation of the General Licence is that you can shoot pigeons to prevent them from taking crops in your garden if you have taken other non-harming reasonable steps to stop them. The same General Licence will apply to a farmer. The farmer can argue that netting etc. is not practical or economical over several acres whereas a gardener with one tree and a bit of netting may have problems making that argument.
Some pigeons can be shot on health & safety grounds to prevent slippage and disease transmission to humans. Patios, lawns, tables, chairs etc. may come under this.

 

[Andycoup]

No you're not.

Wrong!

You cant shoot a woody in your own garden, just because it’s there.
Shooting for a farmer to protect his crops would be exactly the same as shooting in your own garden to protect your own crop!


@Blue-boy has tried other reasonable methods to deter the birds in covering the trees, so in my opinion would be allowed to shoot them.

If you do shoot any, make use of the meat from the birds, remove the breasts from the carcass and keep in the freezer until you have enough for a meal.

 

[Bighit]

Ask DEFRA or Natural England as the GL is not exactly clear .

This is what the GL states.

Serious damage’ means damage to livestock, foodstuffs for livestock, crops, vegetables, fruit, growing timber, fisheries or inland waters that exceeds mere nuisance, minor damage or normal business risk.

Normally that is accepted to mean commercial growing and not in your back garden.

Ask DEFRA or Natural England and get it in writing .

 

[SeanEverz]

I have a similar issue. Had 3 and a squirrel in the garden at the same time over the weekend. They have ruined the trees this year and leave a mess all over our furniture.

 

[That hurts]

I have some dwarf fruit trees in my garden, my pear last year had a lot of tiny fruits appearing but when I looked several days later they had all gone. Had no idea what happened & until yesterday no idea where my fruit had gone. Yesterday I saw a wood pigeon in my cherry tree taking the green pips, not even anywhere being big & ripe so guess the pigeons take them & swallow them whole.

I put netting over the cherry & now they are paying attention to the pear again, as much as I don’t want to kill anything they are not robbing me of my annual fruit supply so don’t see I have much choice.

My garden is quite small, only about 8 metres from back of the house, I have open fields at the back of my house after the fence, the rifles I have are all scoped & given the room I think it’s unlikely I would have enough time to shoot them quickly so am thinking open sight rifle. I have thought budget but really prefer something a bit more quality. I see Weihrauch do a HW 77 that has open sights, also an HW 57. Both under lever which I prefer, are these suitable & what’s the difference between the two. Thanks for any advice anyone can give. What sort of money are these rifles second hand.

In your situation, you have already demonstrated that you can protect your cherry crop by netting the tree, so can do exactly the same thing with the pear. As such, you would not be allowed to control the pigeons under any General License and it is debatable about controlling them in a garden under any circumstances as you are not producing a commercial crop - not ideal, but the GLs are a bit vague and it would be better to err on the side of caution.

 

[shergar]

At this time of year pigeons feast on the young buds of fruit trees, with the abundance of garden grown fruit trees becoming a specific target.
Well used to a winter diet from bird feeders, nests are often close by and familiarity with human activity finds then sitting on a fence until approached within 5 metres, in contrast to their rural cousins who will depart at first sight.
The Law as understood by the General Licence seems to favour the pigeon.
Risk of prosecution is high and if defended, a test case in regard to garden crops would be most costly for the householder given the funds available to the opposition.
There are anomalies, such as shooting pigeon on stubble, after the crop has been gathered.
If adjacent to farm land the pigeon that took your chard and kale through the winter will be just as happy taking the farmer's peas but whilst vegetable gardeners are vastly outnumbered by folk who never put a fork in the soil, factual argument is unlikely to sway public opinion.

 

[Vy Rark Orro]

GL42

The law is a bit vague on the specifics so it would take a court to decide on what was practical, serious damage or mere nuisance but there is no special mention of farmers or gardeners. Before getting to court the police and CPS would both need to be convinced the law was broken.

Condition 1. Alternative lawful methods​

For action taken under this licence for carrion crow, feral pigeon, jackdaw, magpie, rook or wood pigeon (species native to the United Kingdom), you must:

a) before using this licence, be satisfied that you, or the person authorising you to act under this licence, have made reasonable endeavours to achieve the purpose in question using alternative, lawful methods not covered by this licence

b) continue to use reasonable endeavours, or be satisfied that reasonable endeavours continue to be made, to achieve the purpose in question using alternative, lawful methods not covered by this licence

You’re not required to use alternative, lawful methods under condition 1(a) and 1(b) where the use of such methods would be impractical, without effect or disproportionate in the circumstances.

Purpose of this licence​

This licence allows an ‘authorised person to carry out activities in relation to certain species of ‘wild birds , the ‘permitted target species’ , for the purposes of preventing ‘serious damage’ to ‘livestock’ , foodstuffs for livestock, crops, vegetables, fruit, fisheries or inland waters.

1. ‘Authorised person’ has the same meaning given in section 27(1) of the 1981 Act. It includes the owner or occupier of the land on which action authorised by this licence is to be taken, or any person authorised by the owner or occupier.
2. ‘Wild bird’ has the same meaning as in section 27(1) of the 1981 Act.
3. ‘Permitted target species’ means those specified wild birds listed in Table 1 of this licence
4. Serious damage’ means damage to livestock, foodstuffs for livestock, crops, vegetables, fruit, growing timber, fisheries or inland waters that exceeds mere nuisance, minor damage or normal business risk.

 

[Bighit]

GL42

The law is a bit vague on the specifics so it would take a court to decide on what was practical, serious damage or mere nuisance but there is no special mention of farmers or gardeners. Before getting to court the police and CPS would both need to be convinced the law was broken.

Condition 1. Alternative lawful methods​

For action taken under this licence for carrion crow, feral pigeon, jackdaw, magpie, rook or wood pigeon (species native to the United Kingdom), you must:

a) before using this licence, be satisfied that you, or the person authorising you to act under this licence, have made reasonable endeavours to achieve the purpose in question using alternative, lawful methods not covered by this licence

b) continue to use reasonable endeavours, or be satisfied that reasonable endeavours continue to be made, to achieve the purpose in question using alternative, lawful methods not covered by this licence

You’re not required to use alternative, lawful methods under condition 1(a) and 1(b) where the use of such methods would be impractical, without effect or disproportionate in the circumstances.

Purpose of this licence​

This licence allows an ‘authorised person to carry out activities in relation to certain species of ‘wild birds , the ‘permitted target species’ , for the purposes of preventing ‘serious damage’ to ‘livestock’ , foodstuffs for livestock, crops, vegetables, fruit, fisheries or inland waters.

1. ‘Authorised person’ has the same meaning given in section 27(1) of the 1981 Act. It includes the owner or occupier of the land on which action authorised by this licence is to be taken, or any person authorised by the owner or occupier.
2. ‘Wild bird’ has the same meaning as in section 27(1) of the 1981 Act.
3. ‘Permitted target species’ means those specified wild birds listed in Table 1 of this licence
4. Serious damage’ means damage to livestock, foodstuffs for livestock, crops, vegetables, fruit, growing timber, fisheries or inland waters that exceeds mere nuisance, minor damage or normal business risk.

He has shown covering one works so they may ask why the other was not covered .

If you have protected one and not done the other that is of a similar dimensions then it may not go well unless you can provide a valid reason it could not be covered .

Shooting is the last resort but some don't agree.

 

[Tosh]

Watching with interest as I too absolutely detest pigeons, hate them with a passion.
I’ve brought in ALL the bird feeders out of sheer spite towards pigeons.
I’ve even drained the bird bath too.

I miss the little birds
But I’d sooner have no birds in my garden than share it with pigeons.

I abhor the filthy F***ers!!

 

[Bighit]

Watching with interest as I too absolutely detest pigeons, hate them with a passion.
I’ve brought in ALL the bird feeders out of sheer spite towards pigeons.
I’ve even drained the bird bath too.

I miss the little birds
But I’d sooner have no birds in my garden than share it with pigeons.

I abhor the filthy F***ers!!

Get feeders that only allow small birds to get to the food.
My neighbour has them and also a larger one that stops cats getting to them .

Does not stop the crows shaking them to get the food to fall out but the pigeons can't get to food as they have not learned to shake them.

 

[slotter]

One of these required!

 

[Boron]

One of these required!

Without the attached bell.

 

[slotter]

To be fair, in the garden a hawk in its mews doesn't act as a deterrent.
Woodpigeons sit in a tree a few yards from her.
We get plenty of little birds in the garden too.

It made me laugh the other week when on the local BBC news it featured Driffield station which has a feral pigeon problem.
They had hired a pest controller to fly a Harris hawk to scare them off.
They then interviewed the guy holding the hawk and the interview was watched on by 3 feral pigeons sat on the roof behind him!!

 

[Overlay]

I have some dwarf fruit trees in my garden, my pear last year had a lot of tiny fruits appearing but when I looked several days later they had all gone. Had no idea what happened & until yesterday no idea where my fruit had gone. Yesterday I saw a wood pigeon in my cherry tree taking the green pips, not even anywhere being big & ripe so guess the pigeons take them & swallow them whole.

I put netting over the cherry & now they are paying attention to the pear again, as much as I don’t want to kill anything they are not robbing me of my annual fruit supply so don’t see I have much choice.

My garden is quite small, only about 8 metres from back of the house, I have open fields at the back of my house after the fence, the rifles I have are all scoped & given the room I think it’s unlikely I would have enough time to shoot them quickly so am thinking open sight rifle. I have thought budget but really prefer something a bit more quality. I see Weihrauch do a HW 77 that has open sights, also an HW 57. Both under lever which I prefer, are these suitable & what’s the difference between the two. Thanks for any advice anyone can give. What sort of money are these rifles second hand.

Yep
Got the exact same problem, last Year in the end I netted the best one over out of the two trees and they stripped the other from the top down, the ones they dropped on the ground they cleaned them up the whole tree went, I’m ahead this time both trees are netted

it's only the second year they have gone for them in 8 years of planting, strange they never touched them before

 

[ChrisHobbs]

This is taken from BASCs advice on the general licences.

“Can I carry out control in gardens?​

While there can be some restrictions or conditions (which can differ across home countries) around certain protected sites there is no restriction on specific land type such as garden or urban areas. In practice some control, such as of feral pigeons for public health and safety, is likely to be undertaken in such areas.

From a practical point of view, given how things can get misconstrued, I would consider the specifics and any sensitivity of a location where such control is needed and act accordingly. Depending on the situation this might include me explaining to relevant people what was being undertaken and that such action was legal and authorised by a ‘government’ licence.”

Anyone who still thinks that the general licences are only applicable to commercial premises/crops should actually study the current licenses as issued on the 1/1/2024.
It is highlighted within them that the wording that used to state damage must be on a commercial crop has been removed and replaced.

That being said, you must actually get yourself on gov.uk and read the licenses for yourself. How can you claim to be acting within their boundaries if you have not?
If in doubt, contact DEFRA for clarification.

 

[Bighit]

To be fair, in the garden a hawk in its mews doesn't act as a deterrent.
Woodpigeons sit in a tree a few yards from her.
We get plenty of little birds in the garden too.

It made me laugh the other week when on the local BBC news it featured Driffield station which has a feral pigeon problem.
They had hired a pest controller to fly a Harris hawk to scare them off.
They then interviewed the guy holding the hawk and the interview was watched on by 3 feral pigeons sat on the roof behind him!!

We had one come to my work to scare the Gulls and the Gulls would dive bomb it . It was costing £2k a month to visit 6 sites we had in the area once or twice a week and it was a waste of time and money in my eyes .