Why 12 ft. lbs. in the UK - was it arbitrary?

Yellowvanman said:
Protection of the UK manufacturers.
Their competition, mostly German, produced guns of rather higher power, 14-20 ft lbs so the limit was set to exclude them.
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This makes the most sense to me. Politicians don't care about human wellbeing. It is just a general fact. Their interest lies with corporate and monetary agendas, the two factors that underlie social control.
 
longbarrel333 said:
This makes the most sense to me. Politicians don't care about human wellbeing. It is just a general fact. Their interest lies with corporate and monetary agendas, the two factors that underlie social control.
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Sad but true, you can always tell when a Politician is lying (because their lips are moving)
 
Unlikley as the German limit is 7J. I heard it was the US pump and Co2 guns that were threatening the British manufacturers. Historically there have been some very powerfull airguns. The Military used them in Europe 300 yr ago so a limit made sense. I guess 12 didnt outlaw the guns people had domestically at the time.
 
I`m not fully sure but I did read some whereabout a bunch of idiotic kids firing air rifles at passing traffic on a motorway causing the popgun power law of 12ft/lbs.
 
Lots of suggestions here - when I return to NZ I'll dig out my old AGWs and see if there's anything there, but I suspect it's probably a mix of the above reasons...

Cheers, guys!
 
Nomads HFT said:
You could not be more wrong. German airguns at the time struggled to get near double digit muzzle energy.
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I recall that when I began shooting in the mid 60's there were a few "Original" rifles around, at least some of which had been brought back from Germany by people who'd been stationed there as servicemen, and were regarded as good quality guns which roughly matched the performance of their British counterparts. A friend had a Model 50 that was very much on a par with the Webley Mk3 and Airsporter- the premium rifles of their day - in terms of performance.
This was of course before the 1967 (68?) Firearms Act which introduced the 12ft/lbs limit, and as @Arley says, that figure was probably arrived at because it was at the high end of airgun power at the time, but not enough to be considered dangerous.
 
The reason is probably lost and probably a good thing and like BMI totally unrelated and also best left there before the new H&S brigade decide to have a good look at it, then we are fooked!
 
.


Greenwood has suggested that the levels were “convenient” figures:

Eventually it was decided to specify a kinetic energy for the projectiles, and the level
was fixed at 6 ft-lbs for air pistols and at 12 ft-lbs for air rifles. This was a convenient
figure which left domestic products unaffected, but imposed the weighty firearm
certificate procedure on some imported weapons which were capable of being pumped
up to pressures which would produce rather more than the prescribed energy levels.
^page 46 here https://www.25bedfordrow.com/cms/doc...son_090715.pdf




From 2000
The aim of airgun manufacturers is toproduce air weapons which are consistent in performance. This means that they will regulate their product to give optimal performance at a level below the legal maximum.

This will incorporate a "safetyzone" which is broad enough to keep energy levels away fromthe upper limit in the event that something causes the original energy level to rise.

An example of this might be over-oiling the air gun which introduces oil into the air cylinder. This can cause "dieseling" and increased velocities and concomitant energy level rises.

Another cause of increased energy levels can be the use of a lighter pellet.

In my experience most manufacturers regulate energy limits for rifles at 10-10½ ft/lb. This gives an energy level which is humane for pest control, but which is not so close to the upper limit that it will exceed it if the level should rise for any reason.

In 2000 to the best of my knowledge leather pistons seals were still in use by brands and not just in older airguns so it was still relevant even though we had synthetic seals in airguns then and oiling the seal was not as much of an issue maintenance wise.
 
Eeyore said:
I recall that when I began shooting in the mid 60's there were a few "Original" rifles around, at least some of which had been brought back from Germany by people who'd been stationed there as servicemen, and were regarded as good quality guns which roughly matched the performance of their British counterparts. A friend had a Model 50 that was very much on a par with the Webley Mk3 and Airsporter- the premium rifles of their day - in terms of performance.
This was of course before the 1967 (68?) Firearms Act which introduced the 12ft/lbs limit, and as @Arley says, that figure was probably arrived at because it was at the high end of airgun power at the time, but not enough to be considered dangerous.
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Is there any data available to show the actual power of most UK airguns in the 60's?
The BSA Meteor I had certainly didn't destroy pellets like my modern UK guns.
 
So what you really all mean is your guess is as good as mine, Shirley if a law is past there must be a legal document somewhere to give reason
 
Eeyore said:
I recall that when I began shooting in the mid 60's there were a few "Original" rifles around, at least some of which had been brought back from Germany by people who'd been stationed there as servicemen, and were regarded as good quality guns which roughly matched the performance of their British counterparts. A friend had a Model 50 that was very much on a par with the Webley Mk3 and Airsporter- the premium rifles of their day - in terms of performance.
This was of course before the 1967 (68?) Firearms Act which introduced the 12ft/lbs limit, and as @Arley says, that figure was probably arrived at because it was at the high end of airgun power at the time, but not enough to be considered dangerous.
Click to expand...
The Original 50 (underlever) and 35 (break barrel) were great air rifles with superb barrels and proper two stage triggers, and they were head and shoulders above any UK contemporaries, but if you had a .22" that made much over 9 ft. lb., it was an exception. Same goes for the then HW35 (unless it was dieseling), and other continental springers.
 
Yellowvanman said:
Protection of the UK manufacturers.
Their competition, mostly German, produced guns of rather higher power, 14-20 ft lbs so the limit was set to exclude them.
Click to expand...
Yep. And then the manufacturers reacted and adapted.
 
Steve sxs 1; said:
So what you really all mean is your guess is as good as mine, Shirley if a law is past there must be a legal document somewhere to give reason
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Look in Hansard and the UK Government library and other sites and you may find it if it was recorded on there. BE warned , you may need to use " airweapon" :oops: in searches .

I have looked and not found much did once see a document that said Webley and Scott and BSA were consulted and they had a good say in it but I can no longer find that document online.

It was an official document and not just what some one had posted off the top of there head.
 
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