Venom with Provenance

[CWC Matelot]

So... typical day, go for some pellets and end up buying a Gun...
Not just any ole gun but a 1985 Venom HW77K....
I've been toying with a new 77K but boy, I've wanted a Venom since I was 18... this is prime NOSTALGIA!
BUT..... double the poison...
Comes with the correct scope and mounts...
So my questions are:
1) Was this trigger shoe a Venom option or a 3rd party add-on?
2) Based on the Provenance, what internals would I expect to find?
3) The stock has a few varnish chips, to be expected from a properly used rifle, but do I have it refurbished?
I pick it up Tuesday once few questions are answered by RFD (sold on behalf of a client).
RFD's Chronograph showed 11.2 fb ish...when received into the shop for sale.

 

[P8X]

Sadly the provenance gives no indication of the level of tune inside, other than it having one of their mainsprings. That will be a spring of right hand wind.
The suggestion on the paperwork, that other standard parts may not fit, means it could have a steel guide fixed into the trigger block
The only way you'll know for sure, is to take it apart and look.

Difficult to tell from the pics, whether it has Venom bluing but the forend unit looks correct.

To me, the trigger shoe looks non Venom, but I could be wrong

I had one of the same age, that had one of their very first Lazaglide conversions (authenticated), so it will be interesting to see the internals. Mine had a Lazaglide sticker though.

Scope is a nice bonus

Stickers look very "fresh" for their age, which suggests the rifle hasn't seen much use, and that looks to be backed up by the condition of the metalwork

If the serial numbers match, on the rifle and paperwork, it points to a rifle that was either tuned and sold by Venom, or at the very least, worked on and tuned by them
In either case, the internal spec could be basic, or more special.
At that time, Venom weren't making their own green seals, so the seal should be a standard HW thin lipped seal, or a factory seal reprofiled by Venom (if the original internals are still as they were)

 

[CWC Matelot]

Yeh, paperwork & Rifle serials match, thankfully. Hopefully getting some more information from last owner before I receive it.
I'm very curious of the power house inside as could be on the cusp of rolling out the Lazaglide....but as was bought purely for nostalgia, I'd be happy any way...
Defo looks to have an original spec breach seal and not an aftermarket one.
It definitely has had alot of use as the odd mark on the metal etc

Apparently awaiting a few extras with it too, hopefully a Venom sling and possible bag.

Scope was clear and bright, thankfully.

But generally just nice to get one with some paperwork tracing its originality. Oh and original Weihrauch manual ta boot....

Sorry so many pics...but obviously excited beyond belief
I haven't had a .22 since late 80s so it's gonna be that special feeling compared to my new HW100X Laminate Sporter & recently home tuned 97K all .177...
But best of all ? Wife sanctioned the purchase, she's defo a keeper

 

[CWC Matelot]

As I'm also a military watch collector, I had to let go a very rare G10 watch to finance this, but tbh the surprise of opening both etc and finding out their 'hidden stories' is the best part for me...

The rare (1 of only 12-15) CWC G10 Military Green Navigators (non issued but unworn), had to make way for my other steel addiction

 

[Right Cant]

Do you realise thats a newer 26mm piston?

 

[P8X]

Yeh, paperwork & Rifle serials match, thankfully. Hopefully getting some more information from last owner before I receive it.
I'm very curious of the power house inside as could be on the cusp of rolling out the Lazaglide....but as was bought purely for nostalgia, I'd be happy any way...
Defo looks to have an original spec breach seal and not an aftermarket one.
It definitely has had alot of use as the odd mark on the metal etc
View attachment 960093
Apparently awaiting a few extras with it too, hopefully a Venom sling and possible bag.
View attachment 960094
View attachment 960095
Scope was clear and bright, thankfully.
View attachment 960096View attachment 960097
View attachment 960104View attachment 960107
But generally just nice to get one with some paperwork tracing its originality. Oh and original Weihrauch manual ta boot....
View attachment 960108View attachment 960109
Sorry so many pics...but obviously excited beyond belief
I haven't had a .22 since late 80s so it's gonna be that special feeling compared to my new HW100X Laminate Sporter & recently home tuned 97K all .177...
But best of all ? Wife sanctioned the purchase, she's defo a keeper

Worth measuring the TP diameter as from the pics, it looks bigger than standard. Something that had been done on mine so very in keeping

And if I were you, I'd get that tape off from under the scope rings, clean the scope tube and mounts up, and refit securely. Looks like the scope's been moving

 

[CWC Matelot]

Do you realise thats a newer 26mm piston?

Not until, now, hence the need to post the pics for help... I get what you mean about the groove, yeh indicates a 26mm...

 

[Right Cant]

Not until, now, hence the need to post the pics for help... I get what you mean about the groove, yeh indicates a 26mm...

Im joking

 

[CWC Matelot]

Do you realise thats a newer 26mm piston?

Not until, now, hence the need to post the pics for help... I get what you mean about the groove, yeh indicates a 26mm...

Im joking

The groove does look different to a 26mm tbh... but like Isay, hopefully more info from current owner before collection from RFD.... and a great RFD at that...
So much better than my local

 

[P8X]

Do you realise thats a newer 26mm piston?

Looks like 25mm to me, with the thick wall

 

[Right Cant]

Looks like 25mm to me, with the thick wall

Yes it is, i was just stirring the pot

 

[CWC Matelot]

Just had to look at my 26mm as the brown stuff was running down my leg....defo a 25mm in the
You Cant

 

[CWC Matelot]

Obviously buying this is like a surprise Easter Egg, not knowing everything till it's cracked open...
But the Slueth in me sees...above..
If just a spring and guide conversation surely a standard piston & comp will still fit?
Add the, "NO Internal lubrication of any type, must be used"... surely points to their glided piston or special piston seal?
Oh I do love a good history quiz

 

[Plinky Dave]

Nice old rifle with provenance

A worthwhile debate on the 25 or 26 mm piston too

It looks 26mm to me from the pics provided above.

Not wishing to pee on your chips but here is a side by side comparison where the 25mm comp tube with the thicker wall shows that the TP inletting almost bisects the front face of the tube whereas the 26mm has an obvious area where the TP does not.

It may be worth a double check prior to paying up for something that is not as anticipated.

I’ll caveat this with it’s my view of the images shown above and happy and hopefully to be proven incorrect.

Edit: a pic of my Mk1 77 25mm comp tube fit further reference.

 

[Ashf9999]

Venom certainly did supply/sell that style of trigger shoes. I’ll have to dig them out, but I still have some of the earlier Webley Venom branded ones on their cards, when they had the typical red & black print on the packaging. That said, that pattern was certainly prevalent back then, with other suppliers selling the same. Could well have been bought in.

 

[CWC Matelot]

It may be worth a double check prior to paying up for something that is not as anticipated.

Defo will be confirming before collection and ownership
Tbh my V pic might be deceiving as original pic shows edges of comp tube more 'rounded' giving the illusion of a 26mm tube.
At present, work done on this by Venom is unconfirmed based on my post above...regarding standard parts not fitting etc..
But now begs the question, what if any work has been carried out on the comp tube to validate the edges being rounded from standard?

Getting more n more interesting

Looking at the correct orientation of the pic, shows it more like a 25 with rounded edge..
But, I am happy you guys are throwing things to confirm before it changes hands etc

There was some lube evident at bottom of chamber, clean as if recently applied/serviced ?

EDIT:
just found from the Recent Venom Post...
Venom Arms Company Story, currently running on here too.
That now explains why the Comp tube may look 26mm
Damn, love this forum

 

[P8X]

View attachment 960122
Obviously buying this is like a surprise Easter Egg, not knowing everything till it's cracked open...
But the Slueth in me sees...above..
If just a spring and guide conversation surely a standard piston & comp will still fit?
Add the, "NO Internal lubrication of any type, must be used"... surely points to their glided piston or special piston seal?
Oh I do love a good history quiz

If it has a fixed guide factory or other springs won't fit

The lube thing. They used their own lube, which will be evident when you open it up

Easy way to check if its glided, drop the stock off and you'll be able to see a wider rear bearing on the piston, with a bush / bolt fixed in it, that runs in the cocking slot to stop the piston rotating.
If it has that wider rear bearing, the comp tube will also be shortened to accommodate that

 

[CWC Matelot]

If it has a fixed guide factory or other springs won't fit

The lube thing. They used their own lube, which will be evident when you open it up

Easy way to check if its glided, drop the stock off and you'll be able to see a wider rear bearing on the piston, with a bush / bolt fixed in it, that runs in the cocking slot to stop the piston rotating.
If it has that wider rear bearing, the comp tube will also be shortened to accommodate that

Yeh im aware of that bud, just cant take the stock off yet, until I get permission from RFD/owner whilst in there, on collection. But hopefully current owner/seller will pass full info on details etc, as other stuff with it too... but nice it comes with the correct Venom branded scope.
Obviously it has signs the Comp has been Venom'd.. so its just a case of where in Venom technical conversion history does this one sit...
But as stated above, I'll be happy either way, as long as all parts are correct as done by Venom, glided or not...as this appears to just be pre official Lazaglide roll out with the stickers...

 

[P8X]

Yeh im aware of that bud, just cant take the stock off yet, until I get permission from RFD/owner whilst in there, on collection. But hopefully current owner/seller will pass full info on details etc, as other stuff with it too... but nice it comes with the correct Venom branded scope.
Obviously it has signs the Comp has been Venom'd.. so its just a case of where in Venom technical conversion history does this one sit...
But as stated above, I'll be happy either way, as long as all parts are correct as done by Venom, glided or not...as this appears to just be pre official Lazaglide roll out with the stickers...

Whatever the state of tune, you have a rifle that Venom have worked on to some degree

They did allsorts
They sold standard rifles
They carried out all manner of tuning work, to a customers spec. Yours is likely to sit in this bracket
They built and made named rifles, to their own spec

 

[CWC Matelot]

Thankfully the Weihrauch date of manufacturer tally up with the Venom Arms Company dates on the paperwork too...
As long as I'm not getting a 77 with nice stickers and a Venom scope and I'll be happy especially the unbelievable price its coming to me at (will reveal once in my hands).