Towing a caravan in cruise control.

[nav2022]

@BTB 500. I'll give you a prime example.
I go to the east coast with my van probably 14 to 15 times a year, to my favourite site. The best way for me is along the M62 and I get off at South Cave and go on the Beverley bypass. About half way down the M62 section is a strange place where the M62 intersects the Vale of York. Before you get to that section you are pretty much protected by high bankings and tree's and there are no issues. Entering the Vale of York section most days goes without issues but sometimes there are issues and you don't know which day the issue will be.
The area seems to have its own miniature climate with vortex winds, cross winds which can either be northerly or southerly - right into the broadside of the caravan. I've learned to drop the speed entering it to about 50mph which gives me time to work out if its a barmy day or a pleasant day. I've been behind vans who don't know about it, twin axles with ATC including my own daughters van and when I slow down, they carry on tonking and suddenly they are a yard into the middle lane, snaking all over the place.
That side wind hits you and there isn't a van in the world that can deal with it unless you slow down.

 

[BTB 500]

So let me get this right. You are tonking down the motorway at 60mph in cruise and suddenly you get hit with a side wide from nowhere which causes snaking and you are fiddling about somewhere on the steering column to find the cruise cancel? You havn't got time, your van would be out of control before you even thought about where that cruise cancel button is.
And to say that any form of snaking is driver error is pure and utter rubbish. I've been pulling caravans for 31 years. Loaded up properly, noseweight correct on the towball, built in Alco stabilizer and you can still get caught out in certain situations. I've had coaches and motorhomes tonk by me at 85 and the suction causes some right issues. I've been in the inside lane doing 40 mph and high sided wagons have passed me doing 60 in the middle lane and sucked me all over the place. Bridges you can't see, you go over them and get hit with a rogue gust and again, its pushing you about.

30 years towing single axle caravans and trailers here, using cruise control to do it for 24 years, and pulling a caravan with ATC for the last 6 years. As mentioned, zero issues in that time. Don't believe I ever mentioned driver error but as I'm sure you know there are many other things that contribute towards yaw stability e.g.

• Ratio between vehicle and trailer weights
• Tyre pressures (both towing vehicle and trailer)
• Towing vehicle wheelbase
• Rear overhang of towing vehicle
• Trailer drawbar length
• Towball height
• Suspension type and travel of towing vehicle
• Suspension type and condition of trailer
• Number of axles on trailer
• Vertical centre of gravity of trailer
• Longitudinal moment of inertia of trailer (balancing weight at front/back against each other vs. concentrating weight around the axle)
• etc.

As mentioned if you use cruise control regularly there would be no 'fiddling about' to cancel it in an emergency - a tiny touch on the brake pedal will do it instantly if necessary. But I have never personally needed to do this and don't accept that using cruise control is fundamentally risky.

But I do agree that it may not be suited to a driver who isn't confident about exiting it, particularly with an outfit that's liable to snake under some conditions.

 

[BTB 500]

That side wind hits you and there isn't a van in the world that can deal with it unless you slow down.

So setting cruise control to a suitable speed for your particular outfit should be fine?

I routinely tow at 60 on motorways all over the country (subject to road conditions and speed limits), and none of my outfits over the years have ever snaked at that speed. If they did and I couldn't identify and fix the cause (e.g. the factors mentioned previously) then I'd drive at a lower speed where it wasn't going to happen.

As an aside I have fitted Tyron bands for decades, and have used tyre pressure (and temperature) monitoring for the last 6 years. My caravans have always had an annual AWS / NCC Approved service, and tyre pressures and wheel nut torques are checked before every trip. So it's not a case of bombing along and hoping for the best - I have my family on board and am not inclined to take risks.

 

[nav2022]

30 years towing single axle caravans and trailers here, using cruise control to do it for 24 years, and pulling a caravan with ATC for the last 6 years. As mentioned, zero issues in that time. Don't believe I ever mentioned driver error but as I'm sure you know there are many other things that contribute towards yaw stability e.g.

• Ratio between vehicle and trailer weights
• Tyre pressures (both towing vehicle and trailer)
• Towing vehicle wheelbase
• Rear overhang of towing vehicle
• Trailer drawbar length
• Towball height
• Suspension type and travel of towing vehicle
• Suspension type and condition of trailer
• Number of axles on trailer
• Vertical centre of gravity of trailer
• Longitudinal moment of inertia of trailer (balancing weight at front/back against each other vs. concentrating weight around the axle)
• etc.

As mentioned if you use cruise control regularly there would be no 'fiddling about' to cancel it in an emergency - a tiny touch on the brake pedal will do it instantly if necessary. But I have never personally needed to do this and don't accept that using cruise control is fundamentally risky.

But I do agree that it may not be suited to a driver who isn't confident about exiting it, particularly with an outfit that's liable to snake under some conditions.

The problem lies with inexperienced drivers mainly. I'm an experienced driver and still consider it risky in cruise while towing as do some American police departments. If you set the max speed of your towing vehicle to 60 it is much safer. You can just come off the gas without having to think. In an emergency you don't have time to think only act very quickly. As a driver I don't consider myself immune from accidents just because I'm experienced, I'm as vulnerable as anyone mainly because of others and I take care in everything I do on the road. I have a CPC because I also drive at work and CPC covers trailers too and some of the tutors have also warned about cruise control towing trailers. Mainly in wet conditions they advise against it. But I've set a president against doing it altogether, I don't think its quick enough to deselect unless its on the gas pedal. That's just my safer way of using cruise. I've had caravans for 31 years and only had one near miss. A guy on a 50mph road brake tested my car and van by suddenly stopping dead for no reason and I had to slam on. Stopped in time but never really understood why he did it. His stopping distance was half of my van and its a good job I was far enough back. The dangers of snaking though are more common or apparant than you think and its not just about going too fast or overloading or imbalance, its about what other drivers are doing around you on motorways especially speeders. Sudden cross winds are one of the biggest contributers to caravans being tipped over and you simply have to be aware of them especially going over exposed areas like the Vale of York or big bridges.

So setting cruise control to a suitable speed for your particular outfit should be fine?

I routinely tow at 60 on motorways all over the country (subject to road conditions and speed limits), and none of my outfits over the years have ever snaked at that speed. If they did and I couldn't identify and fix the cause (e.g. the factors mentioned previously) then I'd drive at a lower speed where it wasn't going to happen.

As an aside I have fitted Tyron bands for decades, and have used tyre pressure (and temperature) monitoring for the last 6 years. My caravans have always had an annual AWS / NCC Approved service, and tyre pressures and wheel nut torques are checked before every trip. So it's not a case of bombing along and hoping for the best - I have my family on board and am not inclined to take risks.

I tow at 60 most days on motorways unless I know there are certain dangers in doing so like sudden cross winds that seem to come from nowhere and I also have Tyron bands in because its a single axle. Just bought a brand new twin axle which I pick up next week ironically.

 

[nav2022]

@BTB 500.
I started in 1995 with a Volvo 20Li 360GLE and a Sprite with no stabilizer. Bad idea, got rid, rubbish van.
Next came an Elddis with two double beds pulled by the same car. After market stabilizer ferrero pad and leaf spring type.
Next came an Elddis Shamal with same car and after market stabilizer, had it donkeys years and even took it 375 miles to Newquay.
First Alco chassis and built in stabilizer: Bailey pagient pulled by Mondeo 2.0L diesel. had it 5 years
Second Alco system: Coachman Amara 520/4 pulled by Vectra and my current Kuga. Had it 8 years.
New van: 2026 Elddis rambler 20TB pulled by Volvo SC60 2.4 geartronic.

 

[BTB 500]

I've had caravans for 31 years and only had one near miss. A guy on a 50mph road brake tested my car and van by suddenly stopping dead for no reason and I had to slam on. Stopped in time but never really understood why he did it.

Presumably no jackknife though ... so why would some police in the US think that cruise control braking would cause this? As an aside I've also once done an emergency stop while towing in very similar circumstances - it did occur to me afterwards that it could have been a 'crash for cash' attempt that failed because I was able to stop safely. Again no problem with standard over-run brakes.

The dangers of snaking though are more common or apparant than you think and its not just about going too fast or overloading or imbalance, its about what other drivers are doing around you on motorways especially speeders.

I've seen caravans snaking many times - sometimes I can take a guess at the cause (mountain bikes loaded on rear-mounted racks for example) but usually it's not obvious. As mentioned though I've never had an outfit that snaked under any conditions.

Sudden cross winds are one of the biggest contributers to caravans being tipped over and you simply have to be aware of them especially going over exposed areas like the Vale of York or big bridges.

I understood that tyre blowouts (due to under-inflation or poor condition ... perished/aged etc.) were the main cause by far. Unfortunately a good proportion of caravans simply aren't roadworthy, but the bottom line is that these accidents very rarely result in injury (other than to the caravan!) so periodic calls for annual testing have always failed as having no real justification.

I've towed over big estuary bridges many times (the Dartford Crossing and Orwell Bridge most often) without any issues, but they do often have lower speed limits.

 

[nav2022]

Presumably no jackknife though ... so why would some police in the US think that cruise control braking would cause this? As an aside I've also once done an emergency stop while towing in very similar circumstances - it did occur to me afterwards that it could have been a 'crash for cash' attempt that failed because I was able to stop safely. Again no problem with standard over-run brakes.



I've seen caravans snaking many times - sometimes I can take a guess at the cause (mountain bikes loaded on rear-mounted racks for example) but usually it's not obvious. As mentioned though I've never had an outfit that snaked under any conditions.



I understood that tyre blowouts (due to under-inflation or poor condition ... perished/aged etc.) were the main cause by far. Unfortunately a good proportion of caravans simply aren't roadworthy, but the bottom line is that these accidents very rarely result in injury (other than to the caravan!) so periodic calls for annual testing have always failed as having no real justification.

I've towed over big estuary bridges many times (the Dartford Crossing and Orwell Bridge most often) without any issues, but they do often have lower speed limits.

I've snaked just once coming back from Skegness with the Mondeo and a Bailey Pageant with Alko chassis and stabilizer. I've been pushed or pulled by wagons passing in the middle lanes many times, let go of the gas and its rectified itself, you just have to know what to do before it goes wrong on you. That's where people fail, a wagon passes and it sucks them in and lets them go starting the cycle at the beginning of a snake but because they don't let go of the gas pedal, the snake gets much worse. When I was coming back from Skeggy, it was 40 mph winds and I got caught out with it in the Lincolnshire wolds and the van went on one even at low speeds. wife crapped herself. We got caught in a storm in Skeggy and had to stay an extra night. Next day we had to come home cause our pitch was taken so we set off in 20mph winds which turned to 40 in the wolds. Very scary.

 

[BTB 500]

@BTB 500.
I started in 1995 with a Volvo 20Li 360GLE and a Sprite with no stabilizer. Bad idea, got rid, rubbish van.
Next came an Elddis with two double beds pulled by the same car. After market stabilizer ferrero pad and leaf spring type.
Next came an Elddis Shamal with same car and after market stabilizer, had it donkeys years and even took it 375 miles to Newquay.
First Alco chassis and built in stabilizer: Bailey pagient pulled by Mondeo 2.0L diesel. had it 5 years
Second Alco system: Coachman Amara 520/4 pulled by Vectra and my current Kuga. Had it 8 years.
New van: 2026 Elddis rambler 20TB pulled by Volvo SC60 2.4 geartronic.

I started in 1996 with a 2.0L Montego estate and an Elddis Crusader Knight - that had a Bulldog 'leaf' type stabiliser. Then an Elddis Cyclone XL (my first with an AL-KO stabilising hitch) with the same car, upgraded the car to a Vauxhall Sintra 2.2L then later a VW Sharan 4Motion 2.8L (first with cruise control). Then an Abbey GTS Vogue 416 on that, then upgraded to an MB Vito Dualiner 3.0L, then got our current caravan a Bailey Unicorn Valencia (with ATC). The Vito is 19 years old now so due for replacement!

We have 12 dogs and tow all round the country camping at agility competitions with them from early May to late September. I started competing in 1991 - my wife and son both compete as well now.

 

[TonySTS]

30 years towing single axle caravans and trailers here, using cruise control to do it for 24 years, and pulling a caravan with ATC for the last 6 years. As mentioned, zero issues in that time. Don't believe I ever mentioned driver error but as I'm sure you know there are many other things that contribute towards yaw stability e.g.

• Ratio between vehicle and trailer weights
• Tyre pressures (both towing vehicle and trailer)
• Towing vehicle wheelbase
• Rear overhang of towing vehicle
• Trailer drawbar length
• Towball height
• Suspension type and travel of towing vehicle
• Suspension type and condition of trailer
• Number of axles on trailer
• Vertical centre of gravity of trailer
• Longitudinal moment of inertia of trailer (balancing weight at front/back against each other vs. concentrating weight around the axle)
• etc.

As mentioned if you use cruise control regularly there would be no 'fiddling about' to cancel it in an emergency - a tiny touch on the brake pedal will do it instantly if necessary. But I have never personally needed to do this and don't accept that using cruise control is fundamentally risky.

But I do agree that it may not be suited to a driver who isn't confident about exiting it, particularly with an outfit that's liable to snake under some conditions.

In addition to the above my xc60 also has TSA which can react more quickly than a person can and in a similar manner to ABS.

Trailer stability assist[3]	TSA can intervene if snaking is detected when you are towing

 

[BTB 500]

In addition to the above my xc60 also has TSA which can react more quickly than a person can and in a similar manner to ABS.

Trailer stability assist[3]	TSA can intervene if snaking is detected when you are towing

Yep many newer vehicles have trailer assist now. Particularly handy on SUVs that are used to pull big high-sided horse trailers that are 2 tonnes plus!

 

[nav2022]

I started in 1996 with a 2.0L Montego estate and an Elddis Crusader Knight - that had a Bulldog 'leaf' type stabiliser. Then an Elddis Cyclone XL (my first with an AL-KO stabilising hitch) with the same car, upgraded the car to a Vauxhall Sintra 2.2L then later a VW Sharan 4Motion 2.8L (first with cruise control). Then an Abbey GTS Vogue 416 on that, then upgraded to an MB Vito Dualiner 3.0L, then got our current caravan a Bailey Unicorn Valencia (with ATC). The Vito is 19 years old now so due for replacement!

We have 12 dogs and tow all round the country camping at agility competitions with them from early May to late September. I started competing in 1991 - my wife and son both compete as well now.

Looked at getting another Bailey before we bought the new Elddis but didn't like the layout of their twin axle design.

In addition to the above my xc60 also has TSA which can react more quickly than a person can and in a similar manner to ABS.

Trailer stability assist[3]	TSA can intervene if snaking is detected when you are towing

Just bought a SC60 today. Trade in my Kuga next week sometime when the SC is ready to pick up. Was going to get a Hyundai Sante Fe but had Volvo's before including a V70 T5R and can't knock em so am having another.

 

[nav2022]

@BTB 500 in answer to your question:

Presumably no jackknife though ... so why would some police in the US think that cruise control braking would cause this?

On some of their SUV's pulling very large trailers with boats on, they've been tonking down a motorway and gone down a steep incline. As the SUV has started picking up speed because of the weight, the cruise control's active braking has deployed in a pretty substantial way and the trailer has not coped well and jack knifed the whole lot. So the cops have said, in future on steep hills turn off the cruise and just let the engine brake the trailer.

 

[TonySTS]

I like the sc60.

I’ve had a couple of xc60 hybrids now and the v60. The T8 was great but for the mileage I do now the T6 works and was a great price. I get around 26mpg towing a Bailey unicorn Vigo.

It feels very solid in AWD mode and I generally cruise on the motorway at 55 and happy to have relaxed journey.

I always pay attention to my mirrors and my thumb rests above the cc button naturally.

I also love the ability to let the car do its thing in cc in stop start traffic and the radar distance control makes for a relaxed drive with no clutch pedal cramps.

Had some scary moments with wind and usually we go a park up somewhere safely as it’s better to arrive late than not at all. Baffles me when we see poorly loaded rocking vans flying down the road clearly clueless how to drive properly

 

[TonySTS]

@BTB 500 in answer to your question:

On some of their SUV's pulling very large trailers with boats on, they've been tonking down a motorway and gone down a steep incline. As the SUV has started picking up speed because of the weight, the cruise control's active braking has deployed in a pretty substantial way and the trailer has not coped well and jack knifed the whole lot. So the cops have said, in future on steep hills turn off the cruise and just let the engine brake the trailer.

Also if you understand how caravan braking works you know to change to a lower gear and not ride the brakes or use too much down a steep hill.

 

[nav2022]

I like the sc60.

I’ve had a couple of xc60 hybrids now and the v60. The T8 was great but for the mileage I do now the T6 works and was a great price. I get around 26mpg towing a Bailey unicorn Vigo.

It feels very solid in AWD mode and I generally cruise on the motorway at 55 and happy to have relaxed journey.

I always pay attention to my mirrors and my thumb rests above the cc button naturally.

I also love the ability to let the car do its thing in cc in stop start traffic and the radar distance control makes for a relaxed drive with no clutch pedal cramps.

Had some scary moments with wind and usually we go a park up somewhere safely as it’s better to arrive late than not at all. Baffles me when we see poorly loaded rocking vans flying down the road clearly clueless how to drive properly

I've gone for the SC60 2.4 geartronic AWD with the downhill trailer assist. You hit the button and it selects a low gear for you, new caravan has ATC which is the first time I've had it. van is 1550 empty and 1700kg total permissible mass and 1860kg empty car. Above the 85% rule but took advice on it and its a good match. Van won't be much over 1600kg because we don't put a lot in during travelling, we keep a lot in the car so in a typical journey car will be around 2000kg and van about 1600kg

 

[keithy]

I tow a boat about 1.25 tonnes got cut up by a range rover who cut across the front of my car from the slip road onto the motorway I had to hit the brakes and swerve into the middle lane to avoid a collision which set up snaking of my trailer. I carried on at a steady speed which gradually stopped the snaking trailer. My car was a Toyota hilux which wieghs about 2.2 tones every body behind hit the brakes. The driver of the range rover was laughing as i fought for control!!!

 

[TonySTS]

Sounds like a good set up.

I’ve used the off road mode towing on wet grass and it was very effective. Not used the hill descent control though I think it is activated on the off road mode as well?

 

[TonySTS]

I tow a boat about 1.25 tonnes got cut up by a range rover who cut across the front of my car from the slip road onto the motorway I had to hit the brakes to avoid a collision which set up snaking of my trailer. I carried on at a steady speed which gradually stopped the snaking trailer. My car was a Toyota hilux which wieghs about 2.2 tones every body behind hit the brakes. The driver of the range rover was laughing as i fought for control!!!

Other people are the biggest threat to us when towing. But to be fair Range Rover drivers are often crap drivers (AGF members excluded ).

 

[Nitemax]

I thought it was meant to be the opposite and save you fuel whist on a long run

Your foot is not tuned to a target speed so you use the throttle to keep moving at a constant speed somewhere around the speed you'd like to go.
Cruise control has fairly strict limits so rather than dropping 5mph whilst climbing a slight incline it increases the power, it is doing this all of the time. Slightly under to target. Sort of PlD throttle control.

 

[BTB 500]

@BTB 500 in answer to your question:

On some of their SUV's pulling very large trailers with boats on, they've been tonking down a motorway and gone down a steep incline. As the SUV has started picking up speed because of the weight, the cruise control's active braking has deployed in a pretty substantial way and the trailer has not coped well and jack knifed the whole lot.

As mentioned though that's a problem with the outfit rather than CC - the same would happen under any firm braking, whether manual or automated. It doesn't happen with an appropriate and properly maintained outfit, even under full emergency braking. We've both proved that in the past.

Cruise control won't brake abruptly anyway (on many vehicles it still doesn't brake at all). But AEB (Autonomous Emergency Braking) has been mandatory on existing models since 2022 and all new cars from 2024 and that can do a full emergency stop without any driver input at any time.