In regard to an inquiry on my sales post am i right in saying i need to see a valid defense from a potential buyer of my airsoft RIF that is not "two tone", i was of the understanding this is still applicable for a private sale.
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the Daily hi thread
Selling RIFs/Airsoft 6mm law?
- Thread starter DOBBO47
- Start date
Harold
Member Extraordinaire
Yes and no, private sellers do not have access to UKARA database so therefore they cannot check for a valid UKARA, best thing to do is meet them a Driverwood as then that would be there defence or use a bit of commonsense like testing there knowledge and asking where they are going to use it.
Jimiles
Super member
I'm finding this really confusing! I don't own any type of pistol but I am interested in buying a Co2 replica BB gun.
Is it correct that you do need some form of defence to buy an airsoft weapon from a retailer but you do not need any such defence to buy a replica BB gun?
Seems very strange as my understanding is that BB's are generally more powerful than airsoft...
Is it correct that you do need some form of defence to buy an airsoft weapon from a retailer but you do not need any such defence to buy a replica BB gun?
Seems very strange as my understanding is that BB's are generally more powerful than airsoft...
Meal Dot
Member Extraordinaire
Yep, that is the stupidity of the law, the softer, weaker gun is illegal if it looks real, but the steel BB gun looking exactly the same, is OK.I'm finding this really confusing! I don't own any type of pistol but I am interested in buying a Co2 replica BB gun.
Is it correct that you do need some form of defence to buy an airsoft weapon from a retailer but you do not need any such defence to buy a replica BB gun?
Seems very strange as my understanding is that BB's are generally more powerful than airsoft...
nikvanorton
Member Extraordinaire
I'm finding this really confusing! I don't own any type of pistol but I am interested in buying a Co2 replica BB gun.
Is it correct that you do need some form of defence to buy an airsoft weapon from a retailer but you do not need any such defence to buy a replica BB gun?
Seems very strange as my understanding is that BB's are generally more powerful than airsoft...
This is an excerpt from a post I did a while ago about how daft the laws are:
"The laws regarding the purchase of guns from shops in the UK are really very messy. Let's take a few identical looking BLACK Glocks:
Air pistol Glock - Have to be 18 and then I have to have it sent to a Registered Firearms Dealer to collect. Looks same as airsoft, but not a realistic imitation firearm (Bought privately, can be posted straight to my door). Limit 6ftlbs.
Airsoft Glock - Need a defence regarding the VCR act (UKARA or re-enactment etc.) then posted straight to me. This is a realistic imitation firearm. Airsoft limits vary according to location and semi/full auto but generally 1J - 2J.
Paintball Glock - Now need to be a member of UKPSF (a fiver) then posted straight to me. Looks same as airsoft, but not a realistic imitation firearm. Limit 6ftlbs
Blank fiiring Glock - Need a defence regarding the VCR Act in the form of re-enactment, theatre etc., then posted straight to me. This is a realistic imitation firearm. Doesn't fire a projectile but goes bang.
Deactivated real Glock - Just have to be 18 then posted straight to me. My details will be sent to the home office as the owner. The most realistic of all, but of course, it's not a realistic imitation firearm because it's real. Doesn't fire a projectile and doesn't go bang".
Bill.B
Member Extraordinaire
Jimiles
Super member
@nikvanorton Thanks for laying it out like that - very clearly explained!
Here is an artical i copy and pasted from the Surplus Store UK website:
First and foremost, both the seller and the buyer of the item should be over the age of 18. If you’re a younger player and have had kit bought for you by your parents, then ensure that at least one person over 18 (ideally someone that is familiar with airsoft) is present. It is illegal to sell a realistic imitation firearm to someone under the age of 18, and you could face prosecution.
Additionally, and just as importantly, the buyer of the gun should have a defence under the VCRA. This means you are permitted to sell them a RIF, the law here criminalises the seller if the defence isn’t in place. You can’t get into trouble just for owning or buying a RIF without a defence, but if you sell to someone without a defence you are breaking the law, even if you aren’t a business the law still applies.
We would also suggest keeping some form of receipt of sale, signed and dated by both parties, along with details of the person’s defence. This way, if something unexpected did happen, you could prove that you are no longer the owner of the item and they had a defence to purchase under the VCRA."
"The Legalities
First and foremost, both the seller and the buyer of the item should be over the age of 18. If you’re a younger player and have had kit bought for you by your parents, then ensure that at least one person over 18 (ideally someone that is familiar with airsoft) is present. It is illegal to sell a realistic imitation firearm to someone under the age of 18, and you could face prosecution.
Additionally, and just as importantly, the buyer of the gun should have a defence under the VCRA. This means you are permitted to sell them a RIF, the law here criminalises the seller if the defence isn’t in place. You can’t get into trouble just for owning or buying a RIF without a defence, but if you sell to someone without a defence you are breaking the law, even if you aren’t a business the law still applies.
We would also suggest keeping some form of receipt of sale, signed and dated by both parties, along with details of the person’s defence. This way, if something unexpected did happen, you could prove that you are no longer the owner of the item and they had a defence to purchase under the VCRA."
Bill.B
Member Extraordinaire
I totally agreeA braying donkey makes far more sense than this inane law.
I think I made the point in the same thread that there really wasn't any good* reason for paintball guns to avoid being RIFs by 'being classed as paintball markers'. And in any case, that argument may now be irrelevant - the revised definition of a firearm (and thus air weapon) may well now apply to paintball guns irrespective of what they fire. But I suppose it's more important that a few people on here can buy some tasty guns mail order, eh?
*The UKPSF may in fact have a reason from the Home Office why paintball guns aren't RIFs. It is, however, complete nonsense.
Iain
nikvanorton
Member Extraordinaire
I agree with you, but at present this is the way things are.
Harold
Member Extraordinaire
4.5mm fall under airguns law, 6mm fall under airsoft laws, airsoft replica imitation firearms need a defence to purchase, airguns don'tI'm finding this really confusing! I don't own any type of pistol but I am interested in buying a Co2 replica BB gun.
Is it correct that you do need some form of defence to buy an airsoft weapon from a retailer but you do not need any such defence to buy a replica BB gun?
Seems very strange as my understanding is that BB's are generally more powerful than airsoft...
power ranger
Proactive member
Thought 'valid defence/UKARA' is for retailers only selling rif's
Surely this doesn't apply to a private sale...tbh I personally wouldn't ask someone for proof of valid defence on a private sale, a bit of common sense should take over, just don't sell to a 15year old gang member from Manchester to use for armed robbery.
If I was purchasing on a private sale and asked for valid defence by seller, I'd tell the seller to do one. But I am a 52 year young grumpy twat.
edit*
How would you check someone's valid defence? Unless you're a airsoft retailer or club owner with access to the database, it is an irrelevant question.
Surely this doesn't apply to a private sale...tbh I personally wouldn't ask someone for proof of valid defence on a private sale, a bit of common sense should take over, just don't sell to a 15year old gang member from Manchester to use for armed robbery.
If I was purchasing on a private sale and asked for valid defence by seller, I'd tell the seller to do one. But I am a 52 year young grumpy twat.
edit*
How would you check someone's valid defence? Unless you're a airsoft retailer or club owner with access to the database, it is an irrelevant question.
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nikvanorton
Member Extraordinaire
It has always been my understanding that in the private sale of a RIF, the buyer does not need a defence for the reason above, i.e. it's impossible to check unless you have access to the UKARA database.
It's not unusual for private sales to be treated differently to business sales.
If you buy an air gun privately it can be posted to your door but if you buy from a dealer it has to be sent to an RFD.
It's not unusual for private sales to be treated differently to business sales.
If you buy an air gun privately it can be posted to your door but if you buy from a dealer it has to be sent to an RFD.
It does apply to private sales but like you say how are we supposed to check this??Thought 'valid defence/UKARA' is for retailers only selling rif's
Surely this doesn't apply to a private sale...tbh I personally wouldn't ask someone for proof of valid defence on a private sale, a bit of common sense should take over, just don't sell to a 15year old gang member from Manchester to use for armed robbery.
If I was purchasing on a private sale and asked for valid defence by seller, I'd tell the seller to do one. But I am a 52 year young grumpy twat.
edit*
How would you check someone's valid defence? Unless you're a airsoft retailer or club owner with access to the database, it is an irrelevant question.
For any sale of an airsoft pistol, rifle etc. you should ask what defense someone has and see whatever evidence they can provide. UKARA or Sportsmans Association members should have a valid ID card that can be emailed over to you.
If they refuse or can't provide anything then don't complete the sale but if you do and it goes t*t's up you have mitigation that you did all that you could to complete the sale within the current laws given you are a private individual. You just need to cover your arse as best you can.
Yes this legislation makes no real common sense but it is what it is.......
If they refuse or can't provide anything then don't complete the sale but if you do and it goes t*t's up you have mitigation that you did all that you could to complete the sale within the current laws given you are a private individual. You just need to cover your arse as best you can.
Yes this legislation makes no real common sense but it is what it is.......
power ranger
Proactive member
How would you validate ?
You can make up any number .... 3 digits from any site name, followed by another 5 random numbers.
I.e. AGF59329
Bill.B
Member Extraordinaire
Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill!
If they provide something then it's not a question that you can validate it, you have made the effort to comply with the law. Cover your arse.
I can sell my car to anyone, I don't have access to check to see if they have a valid driving license or insurance when they drive off.
As I said, it's not a piece of legislation that makes sense to any shooter.