Odd question.

I have often wondered what would happen if you bought a rifle private sale that had been detuned to sub 12 by someone unaware of the one way rule regarding FAC.
You would have no way of knowing it had ever been an FAC rifle, as far as I know there is no way to search serial numbers to check.
Every rifle any of us has bought second hand COULD have been FAC at one time, we would have no way of knowing Shrug tt
 
Neil123 said:
I have often wondered what would happen if you bought a rifle private sale that had been detuned to sub 12 by someone unaware of the one way rule regarding FAC.
You would have no way of knowing it had ever been an FAC rifle, as far as I know there is no way to search serial numbers to check.
Every rifle any of us has bought second hand COULD have been FAC at one time, we would have no way of knowing Shrug tt
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I never thought of that,if you would never know or could ever find out surely you can't be liable.
 
Shadowryder said:
No because it is the guns frame that carries the Fac registered serial number,
and RFD has said number in his FAC register.
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You are assuming it was ever registered in the first place. I bought my Gunpower off a guy at the club, and happily shot it in various appropriate places till it went wrong. Then I took it into my gunshop, and when they checked it, it was running at 18 ft lbs. Fortunately, I had been going to that gunshop for 20+ years, and had done the guy some favours, so he took it back down to about 11 and gave it back to me.
 
sagalout said:
I know nothing but it appears to me that the firearms law breaches are "absolute offences" so you would be liable.
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I know what you are saying but if you buy a rifle that is under 12 ftlb and therefore as far as it's possible for you to know, legal to own, then what law have you actually broken?
you have absolutely no way to check if it's ever been FAC or not.
If there was a serial number list that you could easily access and you fail to do so then fair enough, but there isn't.
You might have some comeback if you bought from an RFD, but private sale??
It's like unwittingly buying a stolen car from a fraudster.
You might get the car confiscated but as long as you had no knowledge of the fact it was stolen you won't be charged with anything.
 
crissdee said:
You are assuming it was ever registered in the first place. I bought my Gunpower off a guy at the club, and happily shot it in various appropriate places till it went wrong. Then I took it into my gunshop, and when they checked it, it was running at 18 ft lbs. Fortunately, I had been going to that gunshop for 20+ years, and had done the guy some favours, so he took it back down to about 11 and gave it back to me.
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If you read the OPs opening post you will see my statement is totally relevent to the question he asked.

[Quote- If you find an rfd selling a rifle that is rated fac,can you ask said rfd to remove internals that make the rifle fac and put your own non fac rated internals in to bring it to legal uk spec? Regards Chris. Quote-}
 
Look it up in the forum history. It gets very heated. Some say no, some say yes. People will quote legal arguments and quote things.

It can be done, some FAO's will sign it off the register and some will not. It has been done many times but the absolute legality has never been tested in a court of law.
 
Neil123 said:
what law have you actually broken?
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I stress again, "I know nothing".

If a gun is on the FAC register and in your possession, then you are in possession without a FAC, doesn't matter what the muzzle energy is. It is an absolute offence, so given it's in your possession and you don't have it on a FAC you are guilty of (and I ain't sure if this is the correct terminology but I know what I mean 😁) possession of a section 1 firearm without a licence.

I stress again, "I know nothing".
 
Shadowryder said:
If you read the OPs opening post you will see my statement is totally relevent to the question he asked.

[Quote- If you find an rfd selling a rifle that is rated fac,can you ask said rfd to remove internals that make the rifle fac and put your own non fac rated internals in to bring it to legal uk spec? Regards Chris. Quote-}
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It's the bit with the serial number on it that's registered as FAC. Individual parts (like the stock) aren't.
But that brings another question.
Some air rifles have the serial number stamped on the cylinder, others somewhere else on the frame, on some (e.g Weihrauch) it's on the barrel.
It's not like powder burners that are all stamped on the receiver.
So, you bend the barrel on your FAC HW80 and buy a replacement from Hull Cartridge, which will arrive with no serial number on it at all.
Which bit is registered, the rifle or the bent barrel?
I'm guessing you would have to have the new barrel stamped and destroy the old one?
 
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Fourpointfive said:
If you find an rfd selling a rifle that is rated fac,can you ask said rfd to remove internals that make the rifle fac and put your own non fac rated internals in to bring it to legal uk spec? Regards Chris.
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The RFD would have to remove it from the FAC register before they could sell it to you.

Can they do that? I suspect it would be down to the governing licensing authority as I don't it's stipulated in law.
 
Neil123 said:
I'm guessing you would have to have the new barrel stamped and destroy the old one?
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I would guess that if the barrel is not registered then you are free to swap. I suspect FX liners are freely swapped. How would a licensing authority know you've changed a barrel if it has no serial number?
 
Neil123 said:
I know what you are saying but if you buy a rifle that is under 12 ftlb and therefore as far as it's possible for you to know, legal to own, then what law have you actually broken?
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The Firearms Act Chapter 27.

Requirement of firearm certificate

(1)Subject to any exemption under this Act, it is an offence for a person—

(a)to have in his possession, or to purchase or acquire a firearm to which this section applies without holding a firearm certificate in force at the time, or otherwise than as authorised by such a certificate ;

As @sagalout says it is absolute as opposed to the theft act which has a clause stating you are not guilty if you have no knowledge the item is stolen. I suspect in the real world ignorance of the fact would result in a caution and confiscation rather than a trip to court. ( Although don't think of applying for a job that requires a DBS check with a firearms caution)
 
sagalout said:
I stress again, "I know nothing".

If a gun is on the FAC register and in your possession, then you are in possession without a FAC, doesn't matter what the muzzle energy is. It is an absolute offence, so given it's in your possession and you don't have it on a FAC you are guilty of (and I ain't sure if this is the correct terminology but I know what I mean 😁) possession of a section 1 firearm without a licence.

I stress again, "I know nothing".
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It does make you think though doesn't it.
Even if every member on here has one second hand 12 ftlb rifle bought privately (I have 15!) that would be 20,000 rifles and I would bet that not one of them had ever been checked to see if its FAC registered .
 
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