Land Survey for FAC Air and SGC - What's the minimum land you need

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Ian.R

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I'm getting ready to submit for a FAC and SGC together. 20 years ago "we" (family, rather than me personally) had both, but it was a working farm then. Since that time the associated land has been sold on.

The site is now 11 acres, but it has some complications... The farm track through the middle is a public right of way (bridle path hatched red). There are two residential properties on the site (marked as H1 & H2) and the rest of the buildings are agricultural outbuildings. There is no commercial activity within the outbuildings, so no public coming on site, apart from the Bridle Path.

I plan to request FAC Air for pest control and plinking, and a SGC for clay pigeon shooting.

As I'm pulling the paperwork together to submit, I'm starting to wonder if the Land Survey will come out positive. What are peoples' thoughts?

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I've added rough distances on the image above. Hedges are mature including large trees, but not a back-stop. I'd create a back stop where I plan to "plink", but for pest control would be shooting down to ground.

The fields within the site are grass.
 
You have good reason but the visiting FEO may say not safe. I know of FAC granted on much less ground but less safety concerns.
 
Regarding the hedges and trees.

Where I shoot there is hedges but they are not the land owners which I had assumed they were .

There is a fence then the hedge then another fence and i assumed the inner fence was to stop the cattle going up the banking that I planned to use as a backstop or where I could sit and shoot as it was raised above the field .



When I asked if I could cut away some of the hedge to make a hide that was when the landowner said it was not his even though he maintained it . It belonged to the local council.

Had I shot into the ground where the hedges are , I would be firing beyond my boundary and if I was to sit there and shoot into the field it would be armed trespass as I don’t have the land owners permission.



Worth checking if you have not done so.
 
A SGC should be no problem especially if you join a club. FAC air could well be problematic, you won't get it for 'plinking', if you got it for target use that would have to be a more formal use and I don't think many clubs cater for FAC air. As for pest/vermin control would it offer any benefits over sub 12 in real terms, clearly it is effective over longer ranges and that has safety impacts. You may have to wait and see what your local force thinks about it.
 
Possible outcomes ...

Good reason? Yup pest control.

No to any plinking..... probably a yes to zeroing.....a subtle but very important distinction. Zeroing should be included in any grant ..but check.

Has anyone shot the land previously with FAC conditions.... even before you had permission?

If not, probably needs an assessment to then be entered onto the database. The subjectivity of the assessor will come into play, but having responses ready for how you would deal with the right of way, boundaries and potential locations to shoot from (backstops etc) would assist you....as you have seem to have already thought about.....being prepared shows yiu have invested time into it.

I've got permissions for rabbit control in semi urban areas of 4 acres and less (smallest was 2) that were cleared for FAC air before my ticket was opened.
 
Thanks all, good to hear real world experiences.

terry1001 said:
As for pest/vermin control would it offer any benefits over sub 12 in real terms,
Click to expand...

I shoot the area with a sub-12 now, and that's what has lead me on to wanting to go FAC Air, to extend the range out to 60 yards, for rabbits. It's a struggle to get close enough to them at present without them heading down their burrows. I'll continue to use sub-12 around and in the buildings.

3595wilk said:
No to any plinking..... probably a yes to zeroing.....a subtle but very important distinction.
Click to expand...

That's a good catch, I will put express it in that manner, and keep my fingers crossed.

3595wilk said:
Has anyone shot the land previously with FAC conditions.... even before you had permission?
Click to expand...

Not with the current boundaries, the land extended to a much greater area when there was last FAC and SGC grants.
 
I reckon you would probably be ok for FAC air for pest/vermin control, but only your local FAO can be 100% sure. Just know where your safe firing points are & in which direction are safe before they come to look at the ground. Adding high seats might make them more favourable as well, discuss that when they inspect. I don't think anyone ever gets FAC air just for plinking. Good luck (y)
 
Ian.R said:
I shoot the area with a sub-12 now, and that's what has lead me on to wanting to go FAC Air, to extend the range out to 60 yards, for rabbits. It's a struggle to get close enough to them at present without them heading down their burrows. I'll continue to use sub-12 around and in the buildings.
Click to expand...
Don’t forget to stress suitability of FAC air vs other options (E.g LR and HMR) that people might consider if needing more range.

Also don’t forget you’ll need to specify calibre and ask for a moderator slot on your application.
 
I wouldn't have thought even fac air granted? its got an adjacent road parallel to it, bridal way right of way through the middle , and two properties on it and its not a very large pice of land, personally I think sub12 it would be.... But who knows Fao may think its fine 🤷
 
Looking at the info and map that you have provided, i would be pretty confident of getting the green light for FAC air and SG, but as Glyn says its impossible to say for certain until you have gone through all the red tape involved.
My first ever vermin control permission was a semi rural smallholding in Noth Yorkshire which was considerably smaller than 11 acres, and had a B road on one side, and an army barracks on the other, and nobody was more surprised than me when i got the thumbs up.
 
If you're worried about paths and small land areas. The first consideration is always suitable a back stop. The second should be a frangible projectile i.e. easily disintegrates on impact. As well as the effectivness on quarry, if you should miss it would be stoppped by your back stop instead of bouncing off it. F.A.C. air can richochet the same as .22LR albeit with less energy. So in your specific case a .17hmr would be safer. I used to use one in similar cicumstances but sold it as a .223 with 40gr v-max had the same advantages but with better range when needed. But on your land that's probably a big ask.
 
I'd add .22LR & .17HMR onto your application. Doesn't cost any more at the initial grant, but a variation to add additional firearms afterwards now costs £47.

They are all useful tools to have, and different in their usage.

The .22LR is great for a bit just past the Sub12 range (to me up to 60yds as it is quite a loopy flight), and can be near silent. The .17HMR is great to 120yds, but the supersonic crack of the flight will alert other quarry. Big moderator helps to maybe get a second or third.

Both of the rimfire can be had for very little money, especially compared to FAC air, and have the independence of a few rounds in the pocket, rather than sorting out how many shots before refilling from a big air bottle.
 
fixedwheel said:
I'd add .22LR & .17HMR onto your application. Doesn't cost any more at the initial grant, but a variation to add additional firearms afterwards now costs £47.

They are all useful tools to have, and different in their usage.

The .22LR is great for a bit just past the Sub12 range (to me up to 60yds as it is quite a loopy flight), and can be near silent. The .17HMR is great to 120yds, but the supersonic crack of the flight will alert other quarry. Big moderator helps to maybe get a second or third.

Both of the rimfire can be had for very little money, especially compared to FAC air, and have the independence of a few rounds in the pocket, rather than sorting out how many shots before refilling from a big air bottle.
Click to expand...
There’s an interesting bit of psychology to this too. I know people who asked for 500 rounds on their FAC only to be granted 200, and others who asked for 2000 knowing they’ll only get 1000 which is what they wanted anyway.

As long as you’ve got good reason for a 17hmr & .22lr it could be advantageous to your FAC air grant. I.e they say no to the rimfires but yes to the air as middle ground.

Good reason for the rimfires could be dedicated day use when you can’t stalk in as close and air for night use when you can.
 
pelletpusher said:
There’s an interesting bit of psychology to this too. I know people who asked for 500 rounds on their FAC only to be granted 200, and others who asked for 2000 knowing they’ll only get 1000 which is what they wanted anyway.

As long as you’ve got good reason for a 17hmr & .22lr it could be advantageous to your FAC air grant. I.e they say no to the rimfires but yes to the air as middle ground.

Good reason for the rimfires could be dedicated day use when you can’t stalk in as close and air for night use when you can.
Click to expand...
If you have good reason for rimfire, they should not be refused. Either you have good reason for them. Or not.

You could easily justify two of each calibre, one with a glass day scope, and the other with night vision. A day/night scope is just not as good in daylight. It's very easy to fill a cabinet with modestly priced rimfire rifles, and pick the right tool for the job, rather than trying to get one tool set up for different things each time.

The advantage for the FEO/FLD, and to a certain degree yourself, is that the ballistics of the various rimfire calibres are known. The manufacturers declare them and there are plenty of on line tools for yourself & the FEO to understand what you are using.

Not so much the case for the FAC air, where it really is a trial and error game of setting up the chronograph(s) and with heavy slugs being able to be wound up past LR muzzle energies.
 
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