Evening.
Following on from a previous thread about fire doors, we have a question for the learned members, hopefully
@pjgtech will respond.
So we own and rent out a top floor, residential, flat in a block of flats.
The internal doors are fire doors which I’m guessing they have to be, but not the one to the bathroom for some reason.
These will be the original doors as fitted by the builders.
They are 825mm wide which seem to be standard but the heights are too high by 10 or 12 mm due to carpets and flooring.
The old ones have the covering ply, delaminating with sizeably strips/chunks missing.
So, can we fill the the missing strips with poly filler and paint over..easiest option…?
Can we reduce the size of new ones to fit without loosing the fire rating ?
We have been told that self closing is not necessary (only the front door to landing) only by a local odd job man, would this be correct ?
Any recommendations or tips for purchasing and fitting would be welcome.
TIA
Bathrooms don't need to be a fire door as its sort of considered a "safe" space cos theres lots of water, so in theory if you trapped there during a fire, you could lay in the bath or cover yourself with wet towells, etc, plus its not a room that you "live" in, eg: you don't sleep or spend lots of time in there, like a living room or a bedroom, so its a lower risk.
If the old fire doors are starting to deteriorate, eg: delaminate, etc then they will be losing their integrity and their ability to resist a fire.
Therefore I would use the new doors. Yes, you can cut them down, but, usually with most fire doors there is a sticker on the top edge that says its a fire door. So if they are too big (tall), cut them down at the bottom, not the top, so you keep the sticker.
Also you can't just cut them and thats it. Generally you need to lip the cut edge by gluing and screwing a piece of timber in place.
So, for example if the door is 6'8" and you need the door to be 6'6", you don't just remove the 2", instead you would cut them down by more than 2" and then make the door the correct size with the added timber lip. So maybe cut them down to 6'5", so they would be an inch too short, then add 1" of lipping, so the door is now 6'6" as you need it to be, but the cut section has good integrity with the glues and screwed lipping, its not just an open cut, if that makes sense?
Regarding self closers, it depends, on what area you are in, what the local Council specifies, via Planning and/or Building Control, and when the flat were built or converted.
For older properties, where fire precautions are relevant, eg: flats, HMO's, etc generally you would need self closers, (eg: perco's or overhead closers). NB: some Council only allow double chain Perco's, not single chain, as the single chain ones can't always close a fire door if its heavy, some weigh more than others!
For newer properties it depends what the planners/ BC specified when they were built. For example some BC dept's always ask for self closer, but others don't if there are other relevant fire precautions in place, eg: sprinkler systems, which therefore lower the overall risk and give early warning.
You could, in theory repair the old fire doors, but it would need to meet the standard of a fire door, and how can you ensure that it does? the only true way is to test the door, (destructive test) which would be very expensive and would destroy the door, so not really an option!
When I was in the job, I was a bit of a stickler when it came to anything fire related, so if I saw a damaged fire door I would always ask for it to be renewed. Bear in mind if there was a fire, the question would come up who was the last person to inspect? and if it was you, you would want to make sure you did what was required to protect people.
NB: I have inspected many fire damaged properties, sometimes where people have been injured, and its never a nice thing to do.
Is the flat going to be inspected by anyone, eg: fire brigade, planning, building control, environmental health, etc? If so then I would ask them what you can/can't do, as it can vary slightly from one area to another, and some are stricter than others. If more than one standard applies, then you would need to meet whichever is the higher standard.
For reference, fire doors come under the Building Regs part B (Fire) for new build, or new conversions, or anything requiring Building Control, (BC) compliance.
Planning will generally just ask for anything they deal with (fire related) to meet BC compliance.
Environmental Health (if inspecting privately let properties) will be guided by the Housing Act 2004 and the HHSRS (Housing Health and Safety Rating System) where they look at a possible 29 hazards and then risk assess those hazards to see how much harm they could cause and then specify work to reduce or remove the hazard. The HHSRS relevant bit is part D, hazard no' 24 (Fire).
Fire brigade work to the Fire Precautions act as amended (Currently 1997 I think) and specifically s10 where they can serve a notice if they spot a serious risk.
The British Standard for fire doors is BS476, but theres many different parts to the BS depending on what you are looking for, generally its pt22. The EU standard is BS-EN 1634-1.
I have been out of the game since I retired, about 18 months ago, so things might have changed, but I don't think they have.
Hope the info is useful to you. Anymore questions just ask mate....
