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Grey Squirrel Control: Is Shooting "Efficient"?

Dr B

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Just a rumination.

I've read many documents over the years from Forestry and Woodland organisations making the sweeping claim that shooting grey squirrels, as a method, is inefficient and some have argued its the most inefficient method of culling. However, I never really found the reasoning behind this claim or what they mean by inefficient. The other day I found a document that simply said shooting was inefficient because.....and wait for it....grey squirrels were hard to see and thus, inefficient...🤦‍♂️.......and it went on to say particularly in the summer months. Now, this is odd for the following reasons

1# = Drey poking with shotguns takes place in winter when the woodland is fairly clear of foliage. I've seen guys taking 80+ on a single foray.
2# = With an air rifle coupled to a feeder, visibility is not an issue as the squirrel comes to your chosen place which should ensure visibility.
3# = Stalking with an air rifle is much easier in the winter months (visibility) but now elevated even further with the use of thermal imaging.

So I remain unconvinced by the arguments put forward. Now, don't fall into the trap of thinking its just because the authors are anti-shooting - many sources I've read are not anti-shooting. However, to my mind they don't fully understand shooting or the varied methods at our disposal. I think the forestry commissions position is political and represents other reasons, but even other organisations make similar claims.

Nonetheless it does raise a general issue of efficiency. When we consider the time we spend versus the numbers we get - is it efficient? This decision is perhaps also mediated by whether the goal is to control the expansion / numbers of greys versus the goal of eradication in woodlands. Other methods include poisoning, trapping, introducing other species (Pine Martens), Gene Therapy and contraception. All likely have advantages, but all also bring disadvantages as well - some of them not insignificant and some arguably just as inefficient as shooting (if you accept the argument it is inefficient). So what do we think - is shooting inefficient and if so, in what way?
 
All methods help, we in our own small way help to get rid of this invader,, I think no one
has the complete answer,shooting is a small cog in a big machine, we all help in our own area,s
along with rats ,tree rats are my favourite prey and I pursue them with vigour.
and you Jason are doing a grand job around the Lakes.
atb brian
 
Interesting thought Jason.

Compared to the potential benefit of mass contraception, then shooting could be construed as inefficient, but the former is a long way off yet and I doubt it would ever be 100% effective. I think that a lot of it stems from the large forestry owners not being anti-shooting per se, but from them being absolutely paranoid about projecting a 'clean' public image and disallowing shooting on their land as a result.

Conversely, if shooting were banned because of being deemed inefficient (also potentially linked to the anti-lead furore), then you and I can only imagine the resultant explosion in grey numbers - extrapolated from the massive increase in pigeon and corvid numbers around here since the changes to the GLs.
 
Good one Jason!
My thoughts are that shooting , drey poking etc is only effective in areas where you have a dedicated team of people willing to get stuck in.
Take your area as an example, organised effort brings down the numbers but we all know that more will move in from uncontrolled areas and the few that get missed will breed.
Now look at the areas that are covered, is there effective shooting in all areas where there are grey squirrels? Definitely not, lots of places can't be shot for various reasons, think of the city parks, suburban gardens etc where misguided idiots feed and encourage them.
There is also the issue that most people shooting greys are doing it for free and not everyone is as dedicated as you.
Shooting is great when we can cover all areas but the way it's working at the moment, you and a few others may win a yearly battle but without a massive escalation in the way we tackle them, we will never win the war against greys.
 
Inefficient? Maybe. Cost-effective? Damn right!
All we shooters give our time AT NO COST and pay for the lead we use. Any grey we remove from the breeding cycle contributes to the lowering of population levels. We're essentially doing the job of the boffins who, no doubt, are spending large amounts of money developing this contraception program which has yet to be implemented. Airgunners are holding the line for these guys; how can anyone call it inefficient with a straight face?
 
A great post an thought provoking.. here's my thoughts. The only real reason the "boffins" could justify shooting as inefficient is IF they were PAYING for the service!!

How can you say something is inefficient if it cost nothing to the Government/community??
Confused.i am
 
Inefficient? Maybe. Cost-effective? Damn right!
All we shooters give our time AT NO COST and pay for the lead we use. Any grey we remove from the breeding cycle contributes to the lowering of population levels. We're essentially doing the job of the boffins who, no doubt, are spending large amounts of money developing this contraception program which has yet to be implemented. Airgunners are holding the line for these guys; how can anyone call it inefficient with a straight face?
It's not a permanent reduction though is it? In the UK as a whole and the numbers are going up.
If shooting alone is efficient then why do greys come back every year? Shooting is only effective where it is allowed and done properly.
The contraception programme is an effort by the boffins to get the upper hand on the greys in places we will never be able to shoot.
Just a few greys were introduced in Cheshire in 1876 and have gradually covered almost the whole of the UK despite shooting, trapping and drey poking. Something isn't working is it?
 
I think the wording is the problem.
Replace efficient with effective.
Spell checker instead " poof readers " causes lots of misunderstandings these days.
Just a thought 🥴
 
If squirrel shooting is done as a leasure pursuit without consistency or planning then it will likely be ineffective in terms of seriously reducing numbers.

If shooting is done on a professional basis with rifles at established feeders then it will be far more effective.

There's shooting and shooting.
 
Until, all landowners are forced to use shooters to eradicate the gray menace then it will remain inefficient. You on you perms can clear, clear and clear again . They will repopulate for areas where they are allowed and in some places encouraged (just look at the huge populations fed every week by happy holiday makers. The company makes 1000’s every week from food sales.

Shooting makes a difference without a doubt.
 
I think the wording is the problem.
Replace efficient with effective.
Spell checker instead " poof readers " causes lots of misunderstandings these days.
Just a thought 🥴

No, the wording is just fine - but there is an issue with how we conceptualise 'efficiency' - which was mentioned in the OP. What counts as efficient? By what metric? When we can frame that, then we can return to those sources and argue that it is efficient in many regards. I hinted at efficiency in terms of time cost, rather than financial (as an example of problems with the concept of efficiency). As the big organisations will have an eye on this - its important for us, as a community to think about it.
(y)
 
It's not a permanent reduction though is it? In the UK as a whole and the numbers are going up.
If shooting alone is efficient then why do greys come back every year? Shooting is only effective where it is allowed and done properly.
The contraception programme is an effort by the boffins to get the upper hand on the greys in places we will never be able to shoot.
Just a few greys were introduced in Cheshire in 1876 and have gradually covered almost the whole of the UK despite shooting, trapping and drey poking. Something isn't working is it?

If it wasn't for the shooters picking away at them there would be more greys than there are now. I believe that our shooting IS efficient since it costs the public purse nothing. Is it an effective method of control? Clearly not because numbers are still rising, we're told, but in the words of Tesco's, Every Little Helps.
 
If it wasn't for the shooters picking away at them there would be more greys than there are now. I believe that our shooting IS efficient since it costs the public purse nothing. Is it an effective method of control? Clearly not because numbers are still rising, we're told, but in the words of Tesco's, Every Little Helps.
I agree with you that shooting is efficient, but only where shooters are able to shoot. Think of Jasons area, if it was fenced off to prevent greys from outside moving in then in time he would get every grey. But the reality is that despite many years of shooting etc we are not reducing numbers overall. The inefficiency comes from the fact that the current control methods do not kill enough and haven't killed enough for many years despite our efforts. We need new methods that will really hammer the squirrels all over the country.
 
All methods help, we in our own small way help to get rid of this invader,, I think no one
has the complete answer,shooting is a small cog in a big machine, we all help in our own area,s
along with rats ,tree rats are my favourite prey and I pursue them with vigour.
and you Jason are doing a grand job around the Lakes.
atb brian

Thanks Brian and yes, I think ultimately a holistic approach is needed - but would also advocate shooting as part of that. (y)
 
Interesting thought Jason.

Compared to the potential benefit of mass contraception, then shooting could be construed as inefficient, but the former is a long way off yet and I doubt it would ever be 100% effective. I think that a lot of it stems from the large forestry owners not being anti-shooting per se, but from them being absolutely paranoid about projecting a 'clean' public image and disallowing shooting on their land as a result.

Conversely, if shooting were banned because of being deemed inefficient (also potentially linked to the anti-lead furore), then you and I can only imagine the resultant explosion in grey numbers - extrapolated from the massive increase in pigeon and corvid numbers around here since the changes to the GLs.

Thanks mate and yes, I agree. It has always interested me why certain quarters have used the 'inefficient' argument against shooting while never justifying what they mean. When i found the comment that this was based on the visibility of the greys, I must confess i nearly fell off my chair - but it clearly shows that those people do not understand the ways / methods we have at our disposal now. Feeders, trail cams, and thermal have changed matters significantly but i dont think many in the broader conversation are aware of it. This is one reason why I have written extensively on the matter in the press - to try to inform the broader discussion.
 
I mean I don't really go looking for squirrels, but when one walks past and I've got a rifle in hand, my 17HMR seems especially efficient at dispatching them this way, tends to make them explode. :oops:

But I don't think this is what they meant by efficiency.
 
Shooting is good enough IMO but has its limitations for obvious reasons but it probably has the least impact on the environment and is very cost effective since it‘s funded by the shooter .
I agree. I suppose one argument the organisations would make is that it is inefficient as it is not 100% effective - but then, what is? I agree though, in terms of what shows up in the woods when I'm there, and what escapes, shooting is very effective and efficient.
 
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