German m1871 bayonet.

[Whinger]

A friends father died this year at 101years old. Whilst clearing his house he found this in the attic. A quick google of the photo shows it to be a German m1871 bayonet. Whether original or reproduction I don't know yet, maybe someone here can shed some light. Specifically on the Regimental markings and perhaps any value.

 

[slim63]

Any stamps on the blade ricasso or spine ?

 

[Whinger]

I've only got the photos at the moment, I'm hoping to handle it in the next couple of days.
Thanks.

 

[Chrisj]

Here is some pictures from the net give you an idea.

 

[Whinger]

Here is some pictures from the net give you an idea.View attachment 368624View attachment 368625

Thank you. I've still not seen it to handle as yet. Any info is useful.

 

[slim63]

Bayonets of Imperial Germany 1871-1918

Pictures and descriptions of bayonets from Imperial Germany 1871-1918.

worldbayonets.com

This may help once you get your hands on it, and its not a repro
The regimental stamps are often difficult to pin down so i wouldnt bother too much with that beoynd checking that both blade and scabbard match, the makers stamp is more important as rarer makers are more valuable than common ones

If you intend to keep it then a mild clean and preservation is the way to go with it, dont be tempted to polish the hell out of it , happy to advise on that if needed, if it is to be sold on just leave it as is and let the new owner sort it
If it does come up for sale i would be interested for my collection or can point you in the right direction to sell if needs be

I hope that little lot helps

 

[Whinger]

I've finally got my hands on it. Here's a couple of quick photos if anyone can help.
Apparently it was well greased before putting away. The blade is in remarkably good condition apart from a few light rust patches. There's no sharpness to the edges though.

 

[slim63]

I've finally got my hands on it. Here's a couple of quick photos if anyone can help.
Apparently it was well greased before putting away. The blade is in remarkably good condition apart from a few light rust patches. There's no sharpness to the edges though.

View attachment 374262View attachment 374263View attachment 374264View attachment 374269

Weyersberg is a good maker but not one of the rare ones

Bayonets of this era are a thrusting weapon so are not supposed to be sharp on the edge, the better ones for a collector are like this with the factory false edge, many stayed like that until the army were put on a war footing then some but not all were sharpened somewhat by the armourers, those that have been sharpened outside of those parameters eg by bubba in his shed 50 years later are almost worthless

A good pic of the mortice slot in the grip would be good if you can just to see if it was later modified for a different weapon which can affect the value either way (up or down)

I am not sure of the regimental stampings at present but the .22 will be the weapon number it was assigned to, also its worth getting some good pics of all stamps on both the bayonet and scabbard there could be very small ones on the spine near the grip or the ends of the scabbard which could be intreresting if not important

 

[Whinger]

Weyersberg is a good maker but not one of the rare ones

Bayonets of this era are a thrusting weapon so are not supposed to be sharp on the edge, the better ones for a collector are like this with the factory false edge, many stayed like that until the army were put on a war footing then some but not all were sharpened somewhat by the armourers, those that have been sharpened outside of those parameters eg by bubba in his shed 50 years later are almost worthless

A good pic of the mortice slot in the grip would be good if you can just to see if it was later modified for a different weapon which can affect the value either way (up or down)

I am not sure of the regimental stampings at present but the .22 will be the weapon number it was assigned to, also its worth getting some good pics of all stamps on both the bayonet and scabbard there could be very small ones on the spine near the grip or the ends of the scabbard which could be intreresting if not important

Again, thank you. Very interesting.
You are right, there are two stamps on the scabbard, top and bottom. Looks like Royal cyphers. There are also two stamps on the guard, again looks like the same cypher and a number. I can only see the two stamps on the blade spine.
Right or wrong, I couldn't help myself and gave it very light rubbing with autosol to remove some tarnish.

 

[Brishep1]

Good read

 

[Whinger]

@slim63
I've just noticed a stamp on the very tip of the scabbard.

 

[Whinger]

And another near the release button.

 

[Whinger]

Yet another on the upper tang.

 

[slim63]

Again, thank you. Very interesting.
You are right, there are two stamps on the scabbard, top and bottom. Looks like Royal cyphers. There are also two stamps on the guard, again looks like the same cypher and a number. I can only see the two stamps on the blade spine.
Right or wrong, I couldn't help myself and gave it very light rubbing with autosol to remove some tarnish.


View attachment 374714View attachment 374715View attachment 374716View attachment 374717View attachment 374718

They are hard to make out but i think both crowned stamps on the spine are for Wilhelm ll the W being prussia and the other possibly wuttenburg but that one is up for debate, either way its imperial German M1871 pattern for the Mauser rifle, the pattern date is not usually the date it was made but the date the pattern was accepted for service and some could be made quite a bit later
(its actually easier to figure out on british and commonwealth bayonets are most are date marked)

It makes little difference as all it really means is it was inspected and passed for service twice, probably to different units a few years apart its not uncommon to find bayonets and other kit with multiple factur's and regimental markings

I have been wrong before but am reading the regimental number across the guard as 115 regiment, (R) infantry company 9 and weapon 229 (the rifle it belonged to) but this is clearly an overstamp, again that's not unusual on issued an reissued equipment, only a guess but the scabbard stamp belongs either to the previous issue that was overstamped or is from another bayonet, again neither is unusual but it is better for a collector to have matching numbers if possible

I hope my ramblings have helped

 

[Whinger]

They are hard to make out but i think both crowned stamps on the spine are for Wilhelm ll the W being prussia and the other possibly wuttenburg but that one is up for debate, either way its imperial German M1871 pattern for the Mauser rifle, the pattern date is not usually the date it was made but the date the pattern was accepted for service and some could be made quite a bit later
(its actually easier to figure out on british and commonwealth bayonets are most are date marked)

It makes little difference as all it really means is it was inspected and passed for service twice, probably to different units a few years apart its not uncommon to find bayonets and other kit with multiple factur's and regimental markings

I have been wrong before but am reading the regimental number across the guard as 115 regiment, (R) infantry company 9 and weapon 229 (the rifle it belonged to) but this is clearly an overstamp, again that's not unusual on issued an reissued equipment, only a guess but the scabbard stamp belongs either to the previous issue that was overstamped or is from another bayonet, again neither is unusual but it is better for a collector to have matching numbers if possible

I hope my ramblings have helped

Yes indeed. I think we've helped save a bit of history. My friend the owner was thinking of surrendering it to the police for destruction. I'll have to persuade him to sell it.
Many thanks.

 

[slim63]

Yes indeed. I think we've helped save a bit of history. My friend the owner was thinking of surrendering it to the police for destruction. I'll have to persuade him to sell it.
Many thanks.

Please dont let this piece of history be destroyed mate we al know this isnt the sort of thing that is generally used in knife crime and your friend should be made aware of that
It really is a good one that any collector would like to own and it would be a crying shame to destroy it

 

[Whinger]

Please dont let this piece of history be destroyed mate we al know this isnt the sort of thing that is generally used in knife crime and your friend should be made aware of that
It really is a good one that any collector would like to own and it would be a crying shame to destroy it

Thanks. I know his wife doesn't want it in the house with the grandchildren about. I'll suggest he keeps it in his loft out of the way if he doesn't want to sell.