Frustrated with Diana? Rather difficult to make this up!

A

AndrewM

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I admire Diana air rifles - they are high quality engineered German products (despite, sometimes, the presence of plastic open sights). I bought an Original 45 in 1980 (its brand before the German company bought back the name, which they lost in 1945). I found it highly accurate, despite the limited range of pellets in those days. I bought a 34 some years ago. It, too, is very accurate and so is my Diana 280, which I bought cheaply second hand, in 9/10 condition. The TO6 trigger is as good as the famous HW trigger - dare I say! The Diana 54 has received excellent reviews, despite its weight. The 460 underlever is much underrated, like so many of Diana's air rifles, but few people have shot one.

In the 1970s/early '80s, Frank Dyke & Co were the UK agents. I found them efficient. They replied promptly. Since then, Diana has been compromised by a series of agents who, by comparison with HW's, have been dismal at best.

It matters what happens to Diana, especially in the UK. Their rifles are excellent. With the disappearance of German springers from FWB, Walther, Anschutz and others, HW holds the field at the quality end although, thankfully, faces some competition from the excellent Air Arms at the higher end. If Diana leaves the UK or ignores it, HW will feel entirely unconstrained by competition. That does none of us any good, both in terms of pricing and the lack of presence of alternative products .

In mid Dec I emailed Diana in Germany: "Your website states that Edgar Brothers are your British Agents. However, they do not list your products or rifles. I am wondering who is presently representing you in Britain? Secondly, do you have any information on the Diana 34 EMS? Your website makes brief mention of barrel interchangeability and barrel alignment but no information is available about either of these features. I have a Diana 280, which I find an excellently accurate rifle with a splendid trigger (I do not care for the plastic sights), and an older Original 45, which I also have and it has exceptional accuracy too. Potentially, I would like to buy an EMS and discover more about it but this is not possible via your website or via Edgar Brothers."

I received a reply the same day to advise that the new agents were L R Nash (SMK) Ltd t/a Sportsmarketing SMK. On 19th Dec, I received a letter from the agents, with details of my local stockist and including a catalogue, but ignoring my specific questions about the Diana EMS. Moreover, I couldn't find any mention of Diana in (what might have been an old) catalogue but there was plenty of material on Diana's competitors from other manufacturers. Meanwhile, a quick search of the internet revealed that there were few Diana air rifles available in the UK. So, I sent a message to the agents, to no avail. On 15th Jan, I then sent this message to Diana:

"Per my correspondence below, I heard from your agent but they have not answered my specific questions. Indeed, they supplied me with a local gunsmith which has no stock of Diana air rifles. Specifically, I requested information on the Diana 34 EMS. I wanted to know about the barrel interchangeability and barrel alignment but no information has been forthcoming about either of these features. I also want to know about the improved open sights, instead of the plastic variants. A second enquiry to your Agent, requesting the same information again, has not been answered.

"I rather suspect your Agent is compromised with competing brands from other manufacturers. Diana is as good as Weirhauch and possibly more accurate at the margin but I cannot find a supplier with stock or obtain an answer to my simple enquiries from your Agent. I am wondering what purpose they serve."

I have received no reply. I was looking to buy a 34 EMS, if only I could discover more about it and its alternative parts. I will perhaps send another email to Diana Germany. I might also say that I have posted the story, so far, on an airgun website (which I would not name), which receives thousands of views. Possibly, this will stimulate them although, I have rather lost interest. That means the loss of one sale but also the goodwill and additional sales that arise when an owner recommends the product to others.

For what it is worth, here is the email for Diana, Germany. Perhaps others will receive better success than I have: <info.dia.ense@germansportguns.de>

I think everyone will agree that this is a regrettable situation. I do not understand what Diana are thinking when they consider the significant UK market.

Rgds
A.
 
Leaky gas rams, plastic triggers, plastic safety catches, plastic open sights, plastic trigger guards, plastic muzzle assemblies, plastic cylinder end caps and more, weird matt finish instead of proper blueing, predominantly basic, plain, dated stocks and vastly overpriced guns, designed for US power levels......plus endless Chinese clones for a quarter of the price......and Chinese clones rebranded and sold as Diana's.....

Sorry but I'm with @Danthepainter - I don't really see what market niche Diana are trying to occupy and although I'd love a proper 34 or 280, there's really nothing from their range of guns that I'd put my money down on.

I think sadly, they have had their day and are trading on a reputation they built years ago whilst trying to get away with forever lowering quality of components - but not price.

They appear to be a badly mismanaged brand to me.

Sorry @AndrewM but I'd be looking elsewhere
 
Your lucky at least they bothered to reply to you, i emailed them about a month ago inquiring about getting hold of a trigger for the model 35 super I built up & heard nowt back. All it needs to finish it is the trigger & I've tried it out with the trigger from my older model 35 & it shoots really well.
 
AndrewM said:
I admire Diana air rifles - they are high quality engineered German products (despite, sometimes, the presence of plastic open sights). I bought an Original 45 in 1980 (its brand before the German company bought back the name, which they lost in 1945). I found it highly accurate, despite the limited range of pellets in those days. I bought a 34 some years ago. It, too, is very accurate and so is my Diana 280, which I bought cheaply second hand, in 9/10 condition. The TO6 trigger is as good as the famous HW trigger - dare I say! The Diana 54 has received excellent reviews, despite its weight. The 460 underlever is much underrated, like so many of Diana's air rifles, but few people have shot one.

In the 1970s/early '80s, Frank Dyke & Co were the UK agents. I found them efficient. They replied promptly. Since then, Diana has been compromised by a series of agents who, by comparison with HW's, have been dismal at best.

It matters what happens to Diana, especially in the UK. Their rifles are excellent. With the disappearance of German springers from FWB, Walther, Anschutz and others, HW holds the field at the quality end although, thankfully, faces some competition from the excellent Air Arms at the higher end. If Diana leaves the UK or ignores it, HW will feel entirely unconstrained by competition. That does none of us any good, both in terms of pricing and the lack of presence of alternative products .

In mid Dec I emailed Diana in Germany: "Your website states that Edgar Brothers are your British Agents. However, they do not list your products or rifles. I am wondering who is presently representing you in Britain? Secondly, do you have any information on the Diana 34 EMS? Your website makes brief mention of barrel interchangeability and barrel alignment but no information is available about either of these features. I have a Diana 280, which I find an excellently accurate rifle with a splendid trigger (I do not care for the plastic sights), and an older Original 45, which I also have and it has exceptional accuracy too. Potentially, I would like to buy an EMS and discover more about it but this is not possible via your website or via Edgar Brothers."

I received a reply the same day to advise that the new agents were L R Nash (SMK) Ltd t/a Sportsmarketing SMK. On 19th Dec, I received a letter from the agents, with details of my local stockist and including a catalogue, but ignoring my specific questions about the Diana EMS. Moreover, I couldn't find any mention of Diana in (what might have been an old) catalogue but there was plenty of material on Diana's competitors from other manufacturers. Meanwhile, a quick search of the internet revealed that there were few Diana air rifles available in the UK. So, I sent a message to the agents, to no avail. On 15th Jan, I then sent this message to Diana:

"Per my correspondence below, I heard from your agent but they have not answered my specific questions. Indeed, they supplied me with a local gunsmith which has no stock of Diana air rifles. Specifically, I requested information on the Diana 34 EMS. I wanted to know about the barrel interchangeability and barrel alignment but no information has been forthcoming about either of these features. I also want to know about the improved open sights, instead of the plastic variants. A second enquiry to your Agent, requesting the same information again, has not been answered.

"I rather suspect your Agent is compromised with competing brands from other manufacturers. Diana is as good as Weirhauch and possibly more accurate at the margin but I cannot find a supplier with stock or obtain an answer to my simple enquiries from your Agent. I am wondering what purpose they serve."

I have received no reply. I was looking to buy a 34 EMS, if only I could discover more about it and its alternative parts. I will perhaps send another email to Diana Germany. I might also say that I have posted the story, so far, on an airgun website (which I would not name), which receives thousands of views. Possibly, this will stimulate them although, I have rather lost interest. That means the loss of one sale but also the goodwill and additional sales that arise when an owner recommends the product to others.

For what it is worth, here is the email for Diana, Germany. Perhaps others will receive better success than I have: <info.dia.ense@germansportguns.de>

I think everyone will agree that this is a regrettable situation. I do not understand what Diana are thinking when they consider the significant UK market.

Rgds
A.
Click to expand...
Looks like Diana really are now being imported here by SMK

In choosing that distributor, I'd say they've probably shot their bolt, here in the UK.
SMK are known for distributing cheap Chinese air rifles, not premium German products. Add to that, that a few cheap Chinese products are now badged as Diana, there seems to be a bit of a perfect storm and Diana seem to be the orchestrators of their brand, not being viewed as premium products.

Then there's the prices. I've never seen so much odd pricing, in any range of airguns, over the years. Massive new costs, trying to reaffirm quality products, then retailers binning them at ridiculous discounts (presumably when distributors were changed again). I think that's a factor in how the brand is viewed here.

Considering the brand has had premium springers in the UK since at least the late 80's (with the model 52), the array of distributor changes after Frank Dyke, I'm actually surprised they're still sold in the UK

But I don't think it's a marketing / distributor fail, alone
The designers, went down a road with their stocks, when they started and have kept taking wrong turns since
The awful hog back type stocks, on the later ones, look like the butt has melted and drooped, being only suitable for someone of curious physical proportions

As I said above, it's a shame, but I reckon they've done here now.
 
robs5230 said:
Looks like Diana really are now being imported here by SMK

In choosing that distributor, I'd say they've probably shot their bolt, here in the UK.
SMK are known for distributing cheap Chinese air rifles, not premium German products. Add to that, that a few cheap Chinese products are now badged as Diana, there seems to be a bit of a perfect storm and Diana seem to be the orchestrators of their brand, not being viewed as premium products.

Then there's the prices. I've never seen so much odd pricing, in any range of airguns, over the years. Massive new costs, trying to reaffirm quality products, then retailers binning them at ridiculous discounts (presumably when distributors were changed again). I think that's a factor in how the brand is viewed here.

Considering the brand has had premium springers in the UK since at least the late 80's (with the model 52), the array of distributor changes after Frank Dyke, I'm actually surprised they're still sold in the UK

But I don't think it's a marketing / distributor fail, alone
The designers, went down a road with their stocks, when they started and have kept taking wrong turns since
The awful hog back type stocks, on the later ones, look like the butt has melted and drooped, being only suitable for someone of curious physical proportions

As I said above, it's a shame, but I reckon they've done here now.
Click to expand...
They have always made quality springers it's just they were always rare here, I listened to my brothers tales of an old mod 50 he had in the 60's & always wanted one.Took me 30 years to find one for sale locally here in the north east uk......I now have 2 model 35's an older '79 gun & a mid 80's mod 35 "super" but spares being rare as hens teeth it's proving a hard task to find a trigger to finish the 35 super build.
 
I have numerous older Diana's like model 35, 25 etc and they are well made rifles. I also have some newer models built @2016 like two 430L rifles as well as a model 34 compact and they are also fantastic guns with very little plastic. But other than the current 54 I don't think I would consider buying any of their guns. It is a shame to see another great brand go to Chinese versions.
 
Plenty of pessimism and negativity has flowed from my post about Diana. I understand that. I also consider that Diana's marketing efforts in the UK over recent decades have been abysmal, let down in no small part by their various agents. In fact, it puzzles me why Diana would wish to appoint agents with competing brands.

However, Diana - dare I say it (!) - still retains some considerable merits: the accuracy of their barrels is excellent. Their TO6 trigger is equally excellent, as are their metal open sights - when they attach them, and I understand these are optional extras for the 34, for example. I am well attached to the 280 and 34 that I own. Not least, they have their superb (but waning) reputation and I believe that can be restored if they work to do so.

Their presence also prevents HW from setting up an almost unchallenged monopoly at the high end of the range.

Diana's failure - and particularly their agent - to respond to an enquiry is appalling. Last year, by contrast, I emailed Anschutz about their serial numbers to obtain a date for my 335 and they were on the ball at once. I then did so for a handful of other owners on the other forum and their reply was prompt - despite their need to have to research this and with nothing in it for them, other than goodwill (an intangible that cannot be overlooked).

I get the point about the plastic. No one likes it. Clearly, it was an effort to cut costs. So was contracting out to China - another own goal.

However, I understand that they now comprehend all of this and have since returned production to Germany again. Since then, I gather, they have been taken over by another German company which, clearly, sees value in their international activities.

Alas, in recent months - probably since the change in agents - they have jammed their prices up. A year or so ago, the 34 was a cheaply priced air rifle - in the low £300s from recollection. The 460 underlever was decently priced too. This has changed: prices are far higher and they are clearly using HW as their benchmark. HW, in turn, jammed its prices up two or three years ago. It is not possible to buy a quality springer these days at anywhere near the prices of a few years ago.

I looked at the links kindly sent by the correspondents here - thanks for these.

Such a pity Webley went under and then thought it a good idea to produce, under that brand, all its rifles in Turkey. At least BSA seems to be producing some limited items in Birmingham again.

Rgds
A
 
Don't recall the exact dates/timeline, but the company was sold a few years back and when some of their production was moved to China. The 34 and up rifles (what's left anyway) are all still made in Germany. The lesser models are the Chinese made guns and you can spot the difference on where they're made by how they do the names. The original German made rifles are 240, 250, 280, etc. The Chinese made have the models spelled out so Two Forty, Two Fifty, Two Eighty, etc.
I do have a pair of 34's in the aresenal. A 2002 built T01 .177 I found for a steal in a gun store. The shop owner takes trades and was just trying to get rid of it after sitting in a corner for so long. $75 US got me the rifle and he tossed in a free softsided case, not that I needed convincing...lol.
D34-3.jpg
The 2nd is a custom built by Diana D34K Premium .20 caliber. Fellow member @HectorJMedinaG got a group buy together and convinced Diana to build 30 rifles. Mine is #15 of the 30.
D34-20cal-1.jpgD34-20cal-4.webp
 
SteveP-52 said:
Don't recall the exact dates/timeline, but the company was sold a few years back and when some of their production was moved to China. The 34 and up rifles (what's left anyway) are all still made in Germany. The lesser models are the Chinese made guns and you can spot the difference on where they're made by how they do the names. The original German made rifles are 240, 250, 280, etc. The Chinese made have the models spelled out so Two Forty, Two Fifty, Two Eighty, etc.
I do have a pair of 34's in the aresenal. A 2002 built T01 .177 I found for a steal in a gun store. The shop owner takes trades and was just trying to get rid of it after sitting in a corner for so long. $75 US got me the rifle and he tossed in a free softsided case, not that I needed convincing...lol.
View attachment 664544
The 2nd is a custom built by Diana D34K Premium .20 caliber. Fellow member @HectorJMedinaG got a group buy together and convinced Diana to build 30 rifles. Mine is #15 of the 30.
View attachment 664546View attachment 664547
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Gosh, bespoke. How much did they charge, if I may ask? It suggests they might do so again if enough people could agree on a specification. I also notice yours have the proper iron sights.
Rgds
A
 
Diana was bought by GSG who are part of L&O Holdings . L&O have a lot of gun makers under them and they had items made in Bulgaria but I'm not sure if that is still the way it works .
https://www.diana-airguns.de/fileadmin/Editoren/PDF-Downloads/Pressespiegel/wm1016.pdf

Translated

What Ferry Porsche means to the car manufacturer Porsche, Jacob Mayer embodies for Diana. Jacob Mayer laid the foundation for the Diana brand and was responsible for the design of the first Diana air rifles. Even today, our development engineers are amazed at the clever ideas of that time when we look at the old patent documents, some of which date back to the imperial era,” says Michael Swoboda, Managing Director of Diana/German Sport Guns (GSG).
“Until the move from Rastatt to Ense, there had been little change in Diana’s production processes over the past few decades. What used to be solved simply by walking from the first to the second floor at Diana to see if it would fit in the assembly line, today means production according to drawings and thus a necessary adjustment of hundreds of drawings that are brought up to date,” explains Dietmar Emde, Managing Director of GSG.

When the doors in Rastatt were closed, a great deal of preparatory work had already been done. "We have decided to relocate parts of the metal component production to Bulgaria. The company Gabinvest is located there, which, like GSG, belongs to the L&O Holding. Metal and wood components have been manufactured here for companies within the L&O Group for many years under German management.

In order to be able to ensure the best possible supply for Diana right from the start, Gabinvest invested heavily even before the machines and systems arrived. An entire building was converted and renovated to modern manufacturing standards. The systems for which a move was no longer worthwhile due to their age or technical defects were replaced by new systems. As a result, Diana now has access to the latest bluing and hardening systems as well as CNC machines. All other machines and systems were overhauled during the move and can now again perform their service for Diana air rifles without any problems for many years to come. Diana sources the cylinder from this factory, among other things, which is then manufactured in Ense.


is further processed. Other components will continue to be sourced from Germany and other European countries. Assembly has been completely relocated to GSG, and our employees were trained on site in Rastatt for six months before the relocation took place.

Here, too, we are facing the challenge of becoming even better and are currently developing a new assembly concept that will enable us to assemble more cost-efficiently. The main focus will be on a modular production concept and intensive training for our employees,” explains Christoph Böhm, Technical Director of GSG.

Diana will continue to stand for “made in Germany” for most of the range, even if commercial goods or entry-level products such as the Eleven model are no longer produced at the Ense site.

Anyone who still remembers the brand from before will notice that the brand image has changed here too. The “old” green has given way to a “new” blue.

"Whether it's a catalog, the Internet or packaging, Diana appears everywhere in a new look," says Tobias Schmidt, Diana's sales manager. "For us, it's a matter of course to continue to develop the DIANA brand in order to meet the customer requirements of tomorrow.

It's important to us that Diana air rifles not only meet the highest requirements in the industry, but above all that the customer has fun with them," explains Schmidt. A lot has also changed in the sales structure. Diana has repositioned itself in England and Canada. Here, existing business relationships between GSG and its importers are being used and their strengths are being used to get Diana back on track for growth. Sales manager Tobias Schmidt has set himself high goals: "In the next three years, Diana will once again be one of the top three air gun manufacturers."
 
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AndrewM said:
Gosh, bespoke. How much did they charge, if I may ask? It suggests they might do so again if enough people could agree on a specification. I also notice yours have the proper iron sights.
Rgds
A
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Bought mine well after the group buy was long done and yep, made sure the original metal iron sights were included. Hector had some still on the shelf from either buyers changing their minds or because he had to buy a couple himself to get to the 30 rifles. At least from what he told me, final price to each buyer depended on whether the buyer wanted just the stock rifle or tune work done.
 
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