CZ457 Synthetic & Max.Distance For Vermin Control

[1066]

In my experience (around 60 years) the most accurate .22lr ammunition has always been sub-sonic, whether solid or HP, however, over the last year or so there has been increasing interest in long range rimfire competitions, out to 3,4,500 yds.
With this interest some of the ammo companies have started producing match quality rounds especially for these competitions.
The new rounds are supersonic, but not really HV and have a better BC than the standard .22lr fodder.

Are they any better or more accurate? Well, last year for long range matches at 300-400yds I used my regular Midas+ subsonic match ammo and also Lapua R plus Long Range - I can tell you that, although my scores were about the same I needed around 10 minutes less elevation at 300 yds with the new ammunition.

I also tried some of the long range ammo at 50 yds to compare it with my usual match ammo and I was quite surprised at how well it performed.
This is my my usual match ammo at 50 yds... Midas+

And this is the new higher velocity long range stuff.

 

[Rimfires Rifles The Field]

Ok buddy great stuff would be genuinely Interested in your results. I have spend half a lifetime playing /testing .22lr at all ranges, out to ELR distances .

ELR distances, you will be far more experienced than me..I tend to stick to what I know my limitations are, i.e. 80 yards for field stuff and 100 for target shooting for fun.
What .22LRs are you shooting?

 

[Rimfires Rifles The Field]

In my experience (around 60 years) the most accurate .22lr ammunition has always been sub-sonic, whether solid or HP, however, over the last year or so there has been increasing interest in long range rimfire competitions, out to 3,4,500 yds.
With this interest some of the ammo companies have started producing match quality rounds especially for these competitions.
The new rounds are supersonic, but not really HV and have a better BC than the standard .22lr fodder.

Are they any better or more accurate? Well, last year for long range matches at 300-400yds I used my regular Midas+ subsonic match ammo and also Lapua R plus Long Range - I can tell you that, although my scores were about the same I needed around 10 minutes less elevation at 300 yds with the new ammunition.

I also tried some of the long range ammo at 50 yds to compare it with my usual match ammo and I was quite surprised at how well it performed.
This is my my usual match ammo at 50 yds... Midas+
View attachment 431158
And this is the new higher velocity long range stuff.
View attachment 431162

Nice groups!

 

[Rimfires Rifles The Field]

At the risk of sounding preachy....People massively confuse 22LR IMO.

It certainly has the killing capacity out to 300+ yards. A rabbit or crow hit properly at this distance will drop perfectly cleanly. Heck we all hear the horror stories of humans getting injured or dying from a mile away!

But the limiting factor of the 22lr is never power. Its accuracy. And depositing energy into the quarry.

Its just not that accurate. And doesn't dump its energy in small quarry easily. HV ammo may be a bit flatter and slightly less blown around- but you have more than enough power anyway for most quarry.

Sure we can get the odd good group. Which is a lot easier to achieve when you keep the group size down to 3 shots like some do. Even 5 shots is marginal- you're gonna shoot more than 5 bunny's a night aren't you? And how many are off a bipod in ideal conditions like your test group size.

But to really find your ethical hunting distance- put 10 shots in a single group with the same support you use to hunt. Then draw a bunny brain size around them. How many of those 10 will have wounded it ? I bet the nose or jaw has taken a hit or two for most. Maybe another one elsewhere too.

It's also not a very forgiving bullet. Shot placement is important. It's a little more forgiving than an air rifle pellet of course. But not much. Shoot a rabbit with a HMR nearly anywhere in the front half and it will drop cleanly. Rabbits can run away from poorly placed 22lr rounds. They may be 100 ft lbs- but how much of those 100 ft lbs have exited the animal ? A big % I say if you missed the skull.

Good on the OP for asking and looking into it. I think many consider 75 yards the ethical limit- condition dependent. The people who double this range just don't shot the videos of the woundings. IMO it's more humane to shoot a rabbit at 350 yards with a small CF than a 22LR at 100 yards. The CF will either miss or make a mess and lead to a quick kill. The 22LR can hit and not kill more easily IMO.

Yup, I would agree given the option of 75 or 80 yards, I would pick 75.In still conditions, I would attempt 80, but certainly no further.The 100 yards for me is target shooting, nothing more.
Thanks for the input.

 

[One on top of two]

ELR distances, you will be far more experienced than me..I tend to stick to what I know my limitations are, i.e. 80 yards for field stuff and 100 for target shooting for fun.
What .22LRs are you shooting?

Mostly Anschütz

My Anschütz MSR silhouette rifle with vortex PST Gen 2

My Anschütz 14/16 ( with 18’ barrel ) again with vortex PST Gen 2

 

[keithy]

S

Sorry keithy I meant that at 100 yards I could do with more magnification.

That's what i am saying i use fac air up to 100yd head shooting rabbits. i can get a 20 mm group at 100yds which surprised me to be honest. The following week i took my first shot over 75yd and shot a rabbit at 92yds with a perfect head shot. so my limit now is 100yd weather permitting.

 

[Rimfires Rifles The Field]

Mostly Anschütz

My Anschütz MSR silhouette rifle with vortex PST Gen 2
View attachment 431236

My Anschütz 14/16 ( with 18’ barrel ) again with vortex PST Gen 2

View attachment 431237

That is a beautiful rifle! I used to have an 1416 Annie.

 

[Rimfires Rifles The Field]

That's what i am saying i use fac air up to 100yd head shooting rabbits. i can get a 20 mm group at 100yds which surprised me to be honest. The following week i took my first shot over 75yd and shot a rabbit at 92yds with a perfect head shot. so my limit now is 100yd weather permitting.

Nice shooting!

 

[Bighit]

I think that you are pretty much on the money with your chosen distance in variable field conditions, and as for the HV ammo question, the only real choice when i was heavily into the game were CCI Stinger, which are certainly a lot quicker than subs, but the drawback for me was the fact that the group sizes opened up considerably, so i gave them a wide berth.
Things have obviously come a long way since, and i'm sure that there is a lot more choice with HV ammo.
What is the go to HV round these days out of interest?

Not the RWS lead free , No good in my rifle anyway. They claim to be 1700fps in the test rifle .

Terrible at 30 yds and worse at 50 yds . i would only use them for humane dispatch in a cage if I had to use them . still got 50 here out of the 100 I bought to try.

Stingers were ok in my rifle out to 70yrds. I did not try further .

 

[confidis]

Eley HV seem pretty good if I didn't have the HMR I'd probably use them .

 

[Rimfires Rifles The Field]

Not the RWS lead free , No good in my rifle anyway. They claim to be 1700fps in the test rifle .

Terrible at 30 yds and worse at 50 yds . i would only use them for humane dispatch in a cage if I had to use them . still got 50 here out of the 100 I bought to try.

Stingers were ok in my rifle out to 70yrds. I did not try further .

Yup, the RWS lead free are not indeed fit for purpose and absolutely not suitable for vermin control due to the terrible accuracy.

Not the RWS lead free , No good in my rifle anyway. They claim to be 1700fps in the test rifle .

Terrible at 30 yds and worse at 50 yds . i would only use them for humane dispatch in a cage if I had to use them . still got 50 here out of the 100 I bought to try.

Stingers were ok in my rifle out to 70yrds. I did not try further .

Yes, lead free.ammo is not fit for purpose and cannot be used for vermin control due to the terrible accuracy, absolutely.

 

[Osmium]

it all depends on how reliably you can place that bullet at normal hunting speeds, if you have time to set up and get a well positioned shot, 100 yards plus with a 22 rimfire is not rare but you do need to compensate correctly and make a very good shoot because the ammo will always have inherent inconsistency as well as you and the wind too ;-)

 

[Rimfires Rifles The Field]

it all depends on how reliably you can place that bullet at normal hunting speeds, if you have time to set up and get a well positioned shot, 100 yards plus with a 22 rimfire is not rare but you do need to compensate correctly and make a very good shoot because the ammo will always have inherent inconsistency as well as you and the wind too ;-)

Thank you.

 

[billy_boy_2010]

it all depends on how reliably you can place that bullet at normal hunting speeds, if you have time to set up and get a well positioned shot, 100 yards plus with a 22 rimfire is not rare but you do need to compensate correctly and make a very good shoot because the ammo will always have inherent inconsistency as well as you and the wind too ;-)

What do you mean 100+ yards with a rimfire isn't rare ? Which rimfire ? 22LR ? HMR? WMR? WSM?

Because- if you're talking about 22LR like you are with the rest of your comment- whilst it isn't rare for people to take the shot- making a clean kill on a quarry with a small kill zone is much rarer than those who attempt them.

If the ammo is inherently inconsistent- then how can you compensate correctly for this as you suggest? You can't. Which is why 100+ yard clean kills are hard. Not saying you will miss/wound every time. But you certainly won't kill every time either.

With a decent setup, rangefinder, and practice and maybe a couple of practice shots then sure- you can get 1.5-2" groups at 100 yards which could kill crows. But you're going to miss and wound a fair bit if you shoot lots beyond that- especially when it's the first shot- which is the one that counts with crows.

The OP isn't trying to knock crows over at 70 yards from a hide with a few decoys. I have done that- and it's quite effective woth a 22LR. They are trying to find a calibre that can shoot at extended ranges- if they are taking fox to 200 yards- they will likely be doing that and beyond on a crow. A 22LR will be useless for this.

 

[Rimfires Rifles The Field]

What do you mean 100+ yards with a rimfire isn't rare ? Which rimfire ? 22LR ? HMR? WMR? WSM?

Because- if you're talking about 22LR like you are with the rest of your comment- whilst it isn't rare for people to take the shot- making a clean kill on a quarry with a small kill zone is much rarer than those who attempt them.

If the ammo is inherently inconsistent- then how can you compensate correctly for this as you suggest? You can't. Which is why 100+ yard clean kills are hard. Not saying you will miss/wound every time. But you certainly won't kill every time either.

With a decent setup, rangefinder, and practice and maybe a couple of practice shots then sure- you can get 1.5-2" groups at 100 yards which could kill crows. But you're going to miss and wound a fair bit if you shoot lots beyond that- especially when it's the first shot- which is the one that counts with crows.

The OP isn't trying to knock crows over at 70 yards from a hide with a few decoys. I have done that- and it's quite effective woth a 22LR. They are trying to find a calibre that can shoot at extended ranges- if they are taking fox to 200 yards- they will likely be doing that and beyond on a crow. A 22LR will be useless for this.

Definitely 70 -75yards from a hide is doable.Thanks.

 

[billy_boy_2010]

Definitely 70 -75yards from a hide is doable.Thanks.

Yup it sure is. And its fun. And so quiet you won't freak them out. On crops its not that effective as waiting for them to land is a pita- many won't. But the quietness helps a fair bit and for lamb protection it's v effective.

IME its best to have decoys out at 45-50 yards. Crows will sometimes land 10-15 yard out and subs are a bit Loopy by then- especially if your decoys are at 70 yards- the 85 yard shots are risky and it's v hard to judge the distance when your low to the ground. At 45 yards- if they land at 60 you're probably OK aiming dead on or a touch high

 

[Fx shooter]

Yup it sure is. And its fun. And so quiet you won't freak them out. On crops its not that effective as waiting for them to land is a pita- many won't. But the quietness helps a fair bit and for lamb protection it's v effective.

IME its best to have decoys out at 45-50 yards. Crows will sometimes land 10-15 yard out and subs are a bit Loopy by then- especially if your decoys are at 70 yards- the 85 yard shots are risky and it's v hard to judge the distance when your low to the ground. At 45 yards- if they land at 60 you're probably OK aiming dead on or a touch high

Just buy Arken Zulus , takes the guess work out of it

 

[billy_boy_2010]

Just buy Arken Zulus , takes the guess work out of it

Jeez that's a heck of a lot of tech for a few crows. But I can see how it could really help with Loopy calibres. 22LR and FAC air even more so

Personally I don't like killing sentient animals with a digital scope. It makes the process like a computer game- dehumanising the experience- you are taking a life after all. It's easier to forget what you're doing when you're looking at a grainy digital image IMO.

But that's def a nice bit of kit.

It would do far better in a scope form factor IMO.

 

[Fx shooter]

Jeez that's a heck of a lot of tech for a few crows. But I can see how it could really help with Loopy calibres. 22LR and FAC air even more so

Personally I don't like killing sentient animals with a digital scope. It makes the process like a computer game- dehumanising the experience- you are taking a life after all. It's easier to forget what you're doing when you're looking at a grainy digital image IMO.

But that's def a nice bit of kit.

It would do far better in a scope form factor IMO.

But why do you use a scope and not iron sites !!
Zulus in not a grainy image and if the ballistic calculator helps with a clean kill surely that is a good thing

 

[billy_boy_2010]

But why do you use a scope and not iron sites !!
Zulus in not a grainy image and if the ballistic calculator helps with a clean kill surely that is a good thing

Fair point mate- I'm all for a clean kill. I would hope a rangefinder and dialing a scope/knowing your mil dots would be as good. But it's a fair point- it def beats guessing the range.

I do think that outside of making a Loopy calibre more humane- a digital image makes the killing process more clinical and detached.

They can be more ethical when shooting deer towards the end of legal light too. Its probably more humane to see a clearer brighter digital image than a murky glass one and be more likely to fluff the shot