Any pistol near the 6ft lb limit has plenty of power to dispatch a rabbit rat or pigeon with a correctly placed shot at close ranges, accuracy is the issue. Shooting a pistol is hard enough in ideal conditions, let alone on a muddy/uneven surface in wind or rain or in a barn with poor lighting. Guns like the ratcatcher or the SMK CP2 in rifle form a great for pest control though. Very light and easy to handle and carry. Co2 can work fine for this job, but the changes in poi etc due to temperature have to be taken into account and adjusted for on the day. Not so much of an issue for point blank dispatch though.
-
the Daily hi thread
Crosman 2240 marketed for pest control
- Thread starter Air Vic
- Start date
Coopster132
Super member
I'd strongly urge anyone thinking of hunting/pest control with any kind of air pistol to engage their conscience and abandon the idea quickly.
As previous responses have highlighted the power and accuracy issues mean no shooter, no matter how talented and no matter the conditions, can be sufficiently confident of humanely dispatching the intended quarry in real world applications with a pistol.
I've had a number of instances where for various reasons my rifle shot on a rat has missed its mark by a few millimeters, but in every case the power behind the pellet combined with the fact you're not missing your intended POI by much has meant they've all fortunately down quickly.
11-12 fpe does more than extend your range over a pistol, it increases the trauma at the receiving end which can often be what is actually making the shot leathal if it isn't placed perfectly.
5fpe is the same amount of energy as a standard house brick imparts impacting at 3mph (and that's at the muzzle, the energy is dropping constantly from there on over distance). If you imagine the difference between the corner of a falling house brick landing on your big toe at 3mph and 6mph you'll have a good idea of the difference between a 2240 and say a 2250XL. 8mph and your feeling what a properly tuned rifle will deliver. Power matters, even with rodents. Leathal shots from lower power guns are possible but they depend greatly on shot placement. Not easy when your target is fast, twitchy and hiding in the shadows.
With a pistol it's pot luck where your shot lands in real world conditions, and as such it's a gamble as to whether of not it has the ability and energy to do the job properly when it gets there. Gambling and luck have no place in hunting/pest control.
The 22** guns are great fun, I love them, but the 2240 is a point blank dispatcher only, marketing them as anything more is irresponsible. The 2250 (and similar) can be passable for close range ratting but not much more. With a fair bit of tweaking and a lot of practice in varied conditions you can push the range out a bit but in my opinion any serious work is the domain of 11fpe+ from air.
CO2 is inferior to both spring and PCP in consistency of power output and so it's not the best plan when buying a gun for live quarry.
Pistols aren't a plan at all. You're better off spending that money on traps/bait/a proper gun.
As previous responses have highlighted the power and accuracy issues mean no shooter, no matter how talented and no matter the conditions, can be sufficiently confident of humanely dispatching the intended quarry in real world applications with a pistol.
I've had a number of instances where for various reasons my rifle shot on a rat has missed its mark by a few millimeters, but in every case the power behind the pellet combined with the fact you're not missing your intended POI by much has meant they've all fortunately down quickly.
11-12 fpe does more than extend your range over a pistol, it increases the trauma at the receiving end which can often be what is actually making the shot leathal if it isn't placed perfectly.
5fpe is the same amount of energy as a standard house brick imparts impacting at 3mph (and that's at the muzzle, the energy is dropping constantly from there on over distance). If you imagine the difference between the corner of a falling house brick landing on your big toe at 3mph and 6mph you'll have a good idea of the difference between a 2240 and say a 2250XL. 8mph and your feeling what a properly tuned rifle will deliver. Power matters, even with rodents. Leathal shots from lower power guns are possible but they depend greatly on shot placement. Not easy when your target is fast, twitchy and hiding in the shadows.
With a pistol it's pot luck where your shot lands in real world conditions, and as such it's a gamble as to whether of not it has the ability and energy to do the job properly when it gets there. Gambling and luck have no place in hunting/pest control.
The 22** guns are great fun, I love them, but the 2240 is a point blank dispatcher only, marketing them as anything more is irresponsible. The 2250 (and similar) can be passable for close range ratting but not much more. With a fair bit of tweaking and a lot of practice in varied conditions you can push the range out a bit but in my opinion any serious work is the domain of 11fpe+ from air.
CO2 is inferior to both spring and PCP in consistency of power output and so it's not the best plan when buying a gun for live quarry.
Pistols aren't a plan at all. You're better off spending that money on traps/bait/a proper gun.
co2 rifles are perfectly fine for hunting if the shooter is aware that rapid shots will reduce the co2 temp as it converts from liquid to gas and therfore reducing the pressure-co2 though does continue to expand as it pushes the pellet unlike air so provided outside temps are taken into acount(usually by winter tuning) it is still reasonably constant
the fear of low temp pressure loss is more in the US where summer temps can be above 100f but winter in northern states can be -40f so a huge spread in temps ,in the UK we don't have such spreads and power loss between the higher temps to lower is much less
that said i agree a pcp is more practical for hunting in many cases but tuned co2 guns are just as capable in the hands of those who know how to use them
Bluetoe
Super member
Your opinion that no shooter can be confident of humanely dispatching quarry with a pistol is wrong. I have in the past dealt with infestations of rats and feral pigeons in enclosed indoor spaces such as lofts and cellars using first BSA Scorpion springer and later PP700 PCP pistols. In such conditions use of a 12 ft lbs air rifle would have been potentially damaging and possibly dangerous. An example of this was when shooting ferals in a large barn with corrugated steel walls. Using my 11.7 ft lbs TX 200 at ranges of 15 to 30 yards a loud clang was a sure sign of a clean head shot as the pellet passed clean through the head and hit the wall, imagine the potential damage or danger from ricochets in a 25x25 foot cellar or loft space.
Many of the rat shooting videos I've seen on you tube have featured some very dubious "clean kills" regardless of a rifle being used
An important factor to be borne in mind is the terminal energy required to humanely dispatch quarry. For example a .22 rifle shooting 16gr ammo at around 543fps, equates to 10.5ft-lb. The pellets will shed energy at about 10% per 10 yards, and at 30 yards will be retaining around 60% to 70% of the original muzzle velocity, there would be in the region of 6.5ft-lb of retained energy when the pellet strikes home, so a pellet fired from a 5.7 ft lbs pistol will still retain around 5 ft lbs energy at 10 yards. the energy required to produce a clean kill in the case of a rabbit or grey squirrel, is around 4 ft lbs, the energy required to produce a clean kill on a rat or feral at that range somewhat less.
If the shot isn't placed perfectly I'd suggest more practice or more patience is required.
I would certainly not take a shot at a rat which was fast, (still moving?) Twitchy or one which I could not see clearly. Waiting for a clear shot may not result in a big bag of vermin but does the job cleanly.
Your comparison with house bricks landing on toes at different speeds is bizarre at best.
No, it isn't pot luck, it is down to patience and lots of practice. I know from experience that at short range a pistol producing close to 6 ft lbs fired by a shooter who has put in the time to use it accurately has both the ability and energy to do the job properly.
Pistols which produce at least 5+ft lbs can IMHO have a role to play but only within a very particular set of circumstances.
My 2250 produces 10+ ft lbs of muzzle energy, you suggest that this is not enough and that only 11+ will do the job. I suggest you read through some of the posts on here regarding spring piston rifles being used by members which have been detuned, short stroked etc to 10+ ft lbs for smoothness and improved accuracy. As always accuracy not power is the main consideration and at 10 yards or less I would put a PCP pistol up against any spring piston rifle out there.
Used with an understanding of the characteristics of the power source co2 is a perfectly viable option, just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it is wrong.
With regard to advertising I don't think any manufacturer, whatever the gun or power source, should openly advocate the use of their products for pest control but down the years many manufacturers have used it as a sales tactic
Completely agree with all of this. Although I personally wouldn't use a pistol for hunting at any range due to not being able to be accurate enough, I know from test shots against already dead quarry that a 5+ ft lb air pistol is certainly powerful enough at 10 yards. It's the responsibility of the shooter to ensure they can accurately group within the required kill zone area at any range they want to shoot live quarry at, regardless of the gun. I think the biggest problem I can see is, I can accept people are accurate enough to hit the required group with a pistol, but in most circumstances (uneven footing, wind, cold causing shivering, any other factor that affects accuracy) I can't see it being realistic. I did buy a PP700 for close range feral pigeon work just like you described as was having massive over penetration issues with my rifle, but just wasn't accurate enough to ever use it on live quarry so abandoned that idea. Converted to .25 instead as even on chest shots sometimes my .22 would come out the back of the bird.
TD_boy
Member Extraordinaire
Completely loaded question by a new member who seems to have hooked a few in and then exited stage left.
They have sufficient power for very short range work - but the ethics behind it are sketchy at best.
Some will agree, some won't - But there won't be any winners out of the discussion for sure.
They have sufficient power for very short range work - but the ethics behind it are sketchy at best.
Some will agree, some won't - But there won't be any winners out of the discussion for sure.
Winkmyster
Super member
I use a Webley Alecto in 0.20 flavour for ratting in my sheds and duck run but only out to max 10 yards. All shots are rested and it is superbly accurate. With two pumps it generates 5.2ftlb and will put 10 out of 10 shots through a 7mm hole at 10 yards (if I do my bit right). Not owned a 2240 but I weed the paths around my smallholding with either my Alecto or Ultra.
Would it be appropriate to enlighten us ,which youtube channel then? I for one would like to know just who is being thus irresponsible
Claypole
Super member
Fieldsports Channel, although my memory let me down a bit and I exaggerated the range, the longest shot was 'only' about 83 yards.
It was James Marchington shooting rabbits on the Isle of Skye. I've also seen him in a couple of other vids that may be considered a bit controversial with respect to the General Licence.
I shoot heaps of rats with my Sheridan on 3 pumps. Goes straight through. The gun has a red dot and is quite accurate though.
BUT pistol shooting is hard.
Most people cannot shoot a pistol well, let alone well enough to humanely kill a rat.
A small rifle is a much better choice for rats.
BUT pistol shooting is hard.
Most people cannot shoot a pistol well, let alone well enough to humanely kill a rat.
A small rifle is a much better choice for rats.
How strange that , if you mention shooting Rabbit's with a HW30, not one single eyebrow is raised despite the gun struggling to produce 7 ftlbs, but mention that you have shot several Squirrell's at 20 yards with a PP700 on a shoulder stock and you are accused of every heinous crime under the sun, pistol performance has leapt forwards since the availability of PCP variants, some people need to re- evaluate their potential.
Winkmyster
Super member
It is all about confidence in accuracy. All my pistol shots are firmly clamped against solid supports with laser pointer to confirm impact point before I ever pull the trigger. Drop rats at <10yards no probs with a proper pistol and standards. If I cannot garrentee the impact point I do not pull the trigger.....
That all rather sounds like someone who has never owned or shot one tbh.
I have a 2260 and on the chrono it made really good power in temps very similar to our current Nov 2022.
I recorded 9.99fpe which is on par with my plenty of springers. And I’d have to say it is more accurate than all of my springers. Only the trigger really lets it down for target work. But it groups really well at 20-25yrds.
Can’t say I’ve ever really noticed any real POI changes due to temps. And you’d always check your zero before using in anger anyway.
I also have a 2250 XL. Very lightweight and great in tight confines like a chicken run or small barn/tyre store on a farm. I can’t recall the exact power but it was something like 8.7-9.1fpe if memory serves. Which is ample for the tasks being discussed.
Flashheart
Super member
My favourite and most prolific taker of rats lives is my HW30 in .22 that kicks out 8 ftlbs.
Out of all my expensive PCP and thermal optic setups that I’ve used, a cheap red LED torch mounted to the scope of the little 30 works the best for me. Head shots followed by an instant kill every time at 15-20 yards.
So long as your consistently accurate and are aware of your rifles (and your own) limitations, you’ll be good to go.
Out of all my expensive PCP and thermal optic setups that I’ve used, a cheap red LED torch mounted to the scope of the little 30 works the best for me. Head shots followed by an instant kill every time at 15-20 yards.
So long as your consistently accurate and are aware of your rifles (and your own) limitations, you’ll be good to go.
Air Vic
Proactive member
I’ve been an AGF member for a couple of years since the old forum.
The question wasn’t loaded - you’ve made an assumption there, based on nothing that I actually said.
My post:
In the context of the marketing of some air pistols as being ideal for pest control, I asked if air pistols were really powerful enough for ratting.
I further clarified that I had no intention to use pistols on live quarry.
Some members kindly took the time to answer my question. I expressed my appreciation to those members.
As for exiting stage left, I didn’t feel the need or have the knowledge to add anything further to the discussion (hence my question), notwithstanding the difference of opinion that has become apparent.
There was nothing loaded about my question; you made an erroneous assumption.
Nonetheless, thanks for sharing your opinion re the question I asked.
Last edited:
The 2240 i was shooting with had a M16 adj stock and adapter fitted, putting out 5 7ftlb for 16/18 shots and i could constantly hit my 15mm spinner at 22yrds with ease plus there not like a springer with the recoil, far from it.
Papoose
Super member
Yes as I said the 2250XL would come recommended.
Beaver
Member Extraordinaire
Papoose
Super member
Lets move on and show us your Crosman's!
I've had this one for probably 15 years now but It's a continous work in progress. It started life as the 2250b and It now has a Parker hale 4x32 scope and sound mod, the stock valve, 18" recrowned barrel and steel breech. It has managed over 10 fpe. It's powerful enough, accurate and quiet whilst still remaining relatively short. I felt the 24" barrel was just too long. One of the best mods I think was replacing the co2 seal with a poly one, they last forever.