Brocock Orion 6 in .22 calibre

[Mr Clark]

Some more questions about the barrel of the Orion 6: is it me, or does the Orion 6 muzzle look remarkably similar to that of a .22 LR HW9 revolver?

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Orion 6 in .22 calibre

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HW9 in .22 LR calibre

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Orion 6 in .22 calibre

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HW9 in .22 LR calibre

The question, then, is did Weihrauch/Brocock use the very barrels for the Arminius .22 LR version and for the Brocock .22 version?
Do you think the (quicker?) twist rate of the Weihrauch .22 LR barrel might have been a problem with the slower .22 TAC cartridge pellet?

Yet another question: was the free-floating "firing" pin specific to the Brocock version or was it also used on Arminius centrefire revolvers?

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That free-floating pin obviously acts as a mere "valve pin", but I have seen other (rimfire) revolvers that used the same principle.

Interesting comparison pics, did they ever make one chambeted in Win Mag, that would have been very nice

 

[Tinbum]

It's an airgun, isn't it? So, as far as airguns go, it's not that bad, especially considering its TAC cartridge system - the closest you can get to a live-firing .22 LR revolver in my opinion, and, as you live in France, you know you are free to have one at home with no paperwork at all, which is rather nice

If you have found my youtube channel, check tomorrow night’s video where I convert a St Etienne “Buffalo” to a TAC rifle

 

[2506sendero]

Compared to a Smith and Wesson it’s a bit “bleh”!

S&W have not been without their quality & F&F issues over the years either, they were once ownd by the UK company Tomkins PLC, who purchased S&W in 1987 and sold out in 2001 for a massive loss.
During the Tomkins era, they attempted to move towards a more automated/mass produced product, and it all went very badly wrong as the hand fitting aspect of many of the Smiths went totally out of the window, and the companies once iconic reputation suffered very badly.

 

[Tinbum]

S&W have not been without their quality & F&F issues over the years either, they were once ownd by the UK company Tomkins PLC, who purchased S&W in 1987 and sold out in 2001 for a massive loss.
During the Tomkins era, they attempted to move towards a more automated/mass produced product, and it all went very badly wrong as the hand fitting aspect of many of the Smiths went totally out of the window, and the companies once iconic reputation suffered very badly.

But they weren’t made from a crappy alloy were they

 

[Didier]

But they weren’t made from a crappy alloy were they

You might argue that Arminius revolvers and the Orion 6 are made of crappy alloy, but, firstly, that is only partially true - it applies mainly to their cast alloy frames - and, secondly, the Orion 6 actually looks good and feels good in the hand, as, I am sure, does the Arminius HW9 Target Trophy in .22 LR calibre.

If I understand correctly the idea behind those revolvers, Brocock people did their best to select cheap but well-made and good-looking guns, because, obviously, the adaptation of those guns to the TAC system meant that they would be more expensive than the original live-firing guns.

More importantly from the point of view of rank and file airgunners (I am one of them), they're virtually converted firearms - I am confident none of the Brocock revolvers has ever fired a shot using live ammo, but, with the exception of the cylinder and maybe of the firing pin, the HW9 Target Trophy revolver in .22 LR and the Orion 6 in .22 calibre are exactly the same.




















The barrel shroud adds greatly to the overall look of the revolver, of course.





You'd be hard put to find better-looking airguns, in my opinion and, above all, the way they work makes them extremely special - kind of half-way between an airgun and a live-firing revolver.

 

[Tinbum]

You might argue that Arminius revolvers and the Orion 6 are made of crappy alloy,

Ok, crappy was harsh. They are exceptionally good for air pistols

I have one of the ME Magnums here though, that is crappy in every possible way!

 

[Didier]

Thanks, @Tinbum.

Paradoxically, although Arminius revolvers are known for being lower-end firearms, their Brocock versions are at the other end of the spectrum in the airgun world

That discrepancy between CO2 replicas and the firearms they mimic is the reason why I'm more into Russian BB guns - airguns that are made of genuine firearms parts or, at least, of similar parts produced in the very same factories as the original firearms.

 

[AC allday]

Ok, crappy was harsh. They are exceptionally good for air pistols

I have one of the ME Magnums here though, that is crappy in every possible way!

Not as bad as the Airmunitions Firefly,
Yes their even worse!

 

[AC allday]

Saxby was a very clever man!!
Bear with
If he got Weihrauch to make the Orions to the same spec as their .38 but not proofed they couldn't be classed as a firearm so not subject to any deac rules..
When World wide arms converted the .303, they took deactivated rifles and recommissioned them to aircartridge which was and is not legal as once a firearm always a firearm ....
There's always been confusion with aircartridges.....
Even now I have recently seen a Herald for sale as a section 1 rifle!!
I have seen people transfer aircartridge guns from one licence to another...

 

[Didier]

The German proofmarks are indeed missing on the Orion 6 frame:



Am I correct if I assume that the Orion 6 has the same free-floating pin system as the HW9?



That is an HW9 - its hammer doesn't seem to be fitted directly with a pin that will strike the primer, so I assume it strikes a free-floating firing pin in the very same way as the Orioin 6 hammer strikes the valve pin.

My impression is that the differences between an Orion 6 and an HW9 revolver are actually quite limited.

All the Arminius photos are from NaturaBuy, a French platform that specialises in the sale of firearms, airguns and the like.

 

[AC allday]

You are correct, the same floating pin except the Orion is square ended not round....
Most parts are interchangeable but not advisable!

 

[SpookyESU]

You are correct, the same floating pin except the Orion is square ended not round....
Most parts are interchangeable but not advisable!

I made replacement firing pins for the boys when they took over as the orion pins had a habit of snapping out the centre ring.
The replacements were silver steel.

The first 50 orions were HW357’s but most of them went back as they chambered a live round and Mike caught some flak for it.

 

[AC allday]

Hence the stepped shoulders

 

[Didier]

I'm also curious about the Orion 6 cylinder.





I suppose they were bored specifically for the TAC version, but who did the job? Was it done in-house by Weihrauch or did Brocock take care of that?

At any rate, that Orion 6 cylinder won't chamber a .38 Special round - I can bear testimony to that.

 

[AC allday]

Weihrauch made them specifically, originally with the slot, later with the internal sections

 

[Didier]

Weihrauch made them specifically, originally with the slot, later with the internal sections

It's a good thing they went over to the internal sections: the guns look much more the thing like that.

I suppose mine is the less luxurious version of the Orion 6, as it has no add-ons on the trigger blade and the hammer.

 

[AC allday]

The originals were even more plain with Bakerlite grips

 

[Didier]

The originals were even more plain with Bakerlite grips

So were the very first Arminius revolvers, I'd say - the 9mm PAK revolvers are indeed pretty basic stuff.

 

[AC allday]

So were the very first Arminius revolvers, I'd say - the 9mm PAK revolvers are indeed pretty basic stuff.

Yes...no trigger shoe, hammer spur, barrel shroud or Walnut grips and the slotted cylinder but this was revolutionary at the time...
When Brocock introduced newer models like the Specialist, then the Orion was offered in various configurations including the Tawnado, match and Pocket, various barrel lengths were also options....
I have loads of the slabsided barrel shroud plus a few round ones

 

[Didier]

@AC allday, the information you're giving is absolutely fascinating