Brocock Air Cartridge by Kangeroo57

[Caruso]

That's also my take on it. Since surrendering my gun and cartridges, I found another set of cartridges and a bag of spare seals.

None of them would hold pressure so I replaced the seals in one of the cartridges and got it working. I would like to make something similar to the Harper Micro Pistol but wondering on the legality of doing such a thing. The main constraint as I understand it is that the gun mustn't use the whole TAC cartridge but just the pressure holding part. In my design the pellet would be put in the barrel and the pressure holding part of the cartridge would screw into the barrel like the Harper.

 

[Caruso]

Original post by @krapshotkev

I still have a Brocock pump and six cartridges. But no gun

I also found out that a CO2 revolver that takes .38 shells (e.g. M29, Chiappo Rhino) can take the TAC cartridge and will shoot it. The blast of CO2 is enough to fire the TAC cartridge and it's as accurate at the CO2 powered shell. So you can recreate all the fun and inconvenience of the TAC cartridges in a legal gun!

 

[spikey]

A Saxby-Palmer Orion 6 was sold recently in NZ. Although still legal and off ticket, I believe the kiwis cracked down on their importation pretty sharpish after they were introduced, so they're rare.

However, because of a spate of antisocial behaviour, it is now almost impossible to get a new air pistol imported into NZ. Because of that, both secondhand HW45s and CO2 pistols - such as the CP88 - fetch crazy prices here.

 

[CJM]

If the Orion was legal I would have one, so much closer to a cartridge gun than a CO2 in lock time and feel in recoil.

 

[YoelD]

I do miss my Brocock which I surrendered earlier in the year having got back into shooting and discovered the ban (https://airgunforums.co.uk/threads/surrendering-illegal-airguns.105705/)

Am I right in thinking the cartridges are still legal, it's just the guns fire them that have to be held on a FAC?

Yeah, it's the guns themselves that became section 5 (but without being able to be resold, etc). The cartridges are perfectly ok, as they're essentially useless without the guns.

 

[YoelD]

If the Orion was legal I would have one, so much closer to a cartridge gun than a CO2 in lock time and feel in recoil.

My big regret was selling mine before the ban to a RFD rather than getting a ticket for them.

 

[Troy.T.]

Original post by @krapshotkev

I also found out that a CO2 revolver that takes .38 shells (e.g. M29, Chiappo Rhino) can take the TAC cartridge and will shoot it. The blast of CO2 is enough to fire the TAC cartridge and it's as accurate at the CO2 powered shell. So you can recreate all the fun and inconvenience of the TAC cartridges in a legal gun!

I think you are on dodgy ground by using a Brocock cartridge in a Co2 revolver. I am talking the legality of it.

 

[YoelD]

I think you are on dodgy ground by using a Brocock cartridge in a Co2 revolver. I am talking the legality of it.

Can't see any legal issues, personally.
Can't see it working too well either though, to be fair.

 

[Troy.T.]

I agree to a point. No way can a Co2 revolver be made to handle a live round like a Brocock can. But---.

 

[Caruso]

I think you are on dodgy ground by using a Brocock cartridge in a Co2 revolver. I am talking the legality of it.

I agree it's a grey area definitely. So why bother, especially when there is no benefit to it? It's less convenient than using the CO2 shells as intended.

CPS guidance below is a bit contradictory. https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/firearms
"Note that any air weapon which uses, or is designed or adapted for use with, a self-contained gas cartridge system is a prohibited weapon: section 5(1)(af). A self-contained gas cartridge system is one in which pressurised propellant gas is stored in a cartridge which also contains the missile. Each cartridge is a self-contained gas reservoir housed inside a cartridge case with an internal valve designed to release the content when the base of the cartridge is struck. Prior to shooting, each cartridge is pre-filled with sufficient compressed gas for one shot and has a missile seated in the front of the cartridge. The entire cartridge is then inserted into a chamber in the firearm’s barrel, or cylinder in the case of a revolver type firearm. Many air weapons are powered by internal reservoirs of compressed gas, or carbon dioxide canisters; these are not self-contained gas cartridge systems."

 

[Bighit]

I think you are on dodgy ground by using a Brocock cartridge in a Co2 revolver. I am talking the legality of it.

If it does not use the nose cone of the cartridge , Its not self contained hence why the Harper Micro pistols are legal as I and others have posted .

I don't see how you can use with out the cone though

Note that any air weapon which uses, or is designed or adapted for use with, a self-contained gas cartridge system is a prohibited weapon: section 5(1)(af). A self-contained gas cartridge system is one in which pressurised propellant gas is stored in a cartridge which also contains the missile.


The Patent for them .

US4697523A - Compressed gas powered ammunition for guns - Google Patents

A simple to manufacture high pressure rechargeable ammunition cartridge comprising a hollow pressure casing 20 providing a gas storage space 19 to hold compressed gas therein, with a discharge passage 25 in a front part of said casing said gas storage space; an actuation passage 24 extending...

patents.google.com

They mention they could be used for other applications like nail guns .



Other variations of and modifications to the cartridge and round of ammunition may be made within the scope of the invention, particularly with respect to the shape and construction of the missile, which may be separately loadable into the gun and may be useful as a nail, rivet, dart, shell, punch or like forcibly driven article.

 

[AC allday]

If it does not use the nose cone of the cartridge , Its not self contained hence why the Harper Micro pistols are legal as I and others have posted .

I don't see how you can use with out the cone though


View attachment 606734


Note that any air weapon which uses, or is designed or adapted for use with, a self-contained gas cartridge system is a prohibited weapon: section 5(1)(af). A self-contained gas cartridge system is one in which pressurised propellant gas is stored in a cartridge which also contains the missile.


The Patent for them .

US4697523A - Compressed gas powered ammunition for guns - Google Patents

A simple to manufacture high pressure rechargeable ammunition cartridge comprising a hollow pressure casing 20 providing a gas storage space 19 to hold compressed gas therein, with a discharge passage 25 in a front part of said casing said gas storage space; an actuation passage 24 extending...

patents.google.com

They mention they could be used for other applications like nail guns .



Other variations of and modifications to the cartridge and round of ammunition may be made within the scope of the invention, particularly with respect to the shape and construction of the missile, which may be separately loadable into the gun and may be useful as a nail, rivet, dart, shell, punch or like forcibly driven article.

I have seen a couple of converted Harper guns one used cartridges fixed within there chambers and a special charger...I have also seen guns with the nosecones fixed within the chamber and the cartridge/ reservoir loaded separately both types were off ticket....
Yes you can fire nails, darts or rivets with Aircartridges....Crown cartridges were designed to run at 5000psi my nail guns only need 800psi....