Cinimod
Skips and crayons aficionado
I knew I'd seen one and I wasn't going doolallie 
...............dom
...............dom
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the Daily hi thread
Advice for improvement before I lose heart
- Thread starter GridNorth
- Start date
Jim-in-Darwen
Super member
Relax - at each of the x10’s you got to start with your stress level went up to repeat that hit and then when you didn’t get it the stress level would rise and you lost confidence in your ability.
At my club there is a bell target out at about 55 yards. Hole around 12mm - I don’t particularly enjoy shooting springers but one day under good conditions, using my HW98 I hit it seven times in a row. I then made the mistake of saying I was going to make it 10/10 and then stop. I never hit that bell again in all that session or since using that HW98. Every time I decide to have a go at my blood pressure likely goes up. I need to relax.
Jim
At my club there is a bell target out at about 55 yards. Hole around 12mm - I don’t particularly enjoy shooting springers but one day under good conditions, using my HW98 I hit it seven times in a row. I then made the mistake of saying I was going to make it 10/10 and then stop. I never hit that bell again in all that session or since using that HW98. Every time I decide to have a go at my blood pressure likely goes up. I need to relax.
Jim
GridNorth
Super member
This mornings results. Left hand practice ring: 10, 10, same hole. Right hand practice ring 10X, 10, same hole. End score 227. I seem to be getting worse instead of better. My best scores are when I barely touch the gun but that seems rather pointless to me. If the muzzle end is fixed and the butt is fixed all that can go wrong is trigger control and sight image and I can tell when I "pull a shot" but most of the time there is no logic. Watching vids of the experts and what they do doesn't really appeal to me, the gun is to all intents and purposes clamped. It might as well be voice controlled. I'm beginning to think HFT is much more my thing and what I consider air rifle shooting to be all about. It's not just because I'm crap it's because is stopping being fun. I never felt like that with HFT even when shooting poorly.
Al
Al
The thing with BR is, it's pushing the technology side much more than HFT does. Even if the rifle is clamped and you don't touch it and you have a remote control solenoid to let the trigger off, you're still looking for the combination of rifle and pellet to place the shot within a millimetre or two of the correct spot. I think that's a tall order for an airgun. Airgun averages are not as high as 22LR averages.
Mark Palmer
Member Extraordinaire
A big part of the discipline of BR is identifying any issues and addressing them, a sporter stock isnt the ideal shape to suit a rest or for consistent cheek/head position unless it has an adjustable cheek piece, I use a foam riser on my sporter stock and a Harris clone bipod at the front, I've had to wedge the air tube (with an old target!) As the action was moving in the stock, I support the rear of the gun with a hand held caldwell bag. I did initial pellet testing like this, then clamped the gun to the bench and shot strings of the better grouping pellets until I found a genuine single hole (5mm) grouping pellet. Now any variation is entirely down to my input and that's what i work on.
There is no "quick fix" , it takes time, dedication and patience, if that isnt for you, so be it
GridNorth
Super member
My gun is an AA S510 TR so the stock is even less ideal than a wooden sporter stock I suspect as there is some movement and it's difficult to hold firm. My results have gone from a heady 234 to 212. So instead of improving I seem to be getting worse.A big part of the discipline of BR is identifying any issues and addressing them, a sporter stock isnt the ideal shape to suit a rest or for consistent cheek/head position unless it has an adjustable cheek piece, I use a foam riser on my sporter stock and a Harris clone bipod at the front, I've had to wedge the air tube (with an old target!) As the action was moving in the stock, I support the rear of the gun with a hand held caldwell bag. I did initial pellet testing like this, then clamped the gun to the bench and shot strings of the better grouping pellets until I found a genuine single hole (5mm) grouping pellet. Now any variation is entirely down to my input and that's what i work on.
There is no "quick fix" , it takes time, dedication and patience, if that isnt for you, so be it
Mark Palmer
Member Extraordinaire
You need to analyse what is going wrong/happening when you shoot, the AA platform is very accurate, a fist time shooter at my local range did 242 with an S400 superlight on a basic bipod, albeit, indoors. I dont get on with scopes and have also done a 240 with the S400 when I had a go, a few of the regular guys were in the mid 240s with them before going down the HFT500 routeMy gun is an AA S510 TR so the stock is even less ideal than a wooden sporter stock I suspect as there is some movement and it's difficult to hold firm. My results have gone from a heady 234 to 212. So instead of improving I seem to be getting worse.
Tim_B
Member Extraordinaire
Thats because you are trying to hard now I think - happens in most sports...golf with me.....the more i try the further right it goesMy gun is an AA S510 TR so the stock is even less ideal than a wooden sporter stock I suspect as there is some movement and it's difficult to hold firm. My results have gone from a heady 234 to 212. So instead of improving I seem to be getting worse.
Maybe give it a break for a few weeks and go back to it.
I would still say "is your rifle up to it" - when I first started a couple of years ago, I really wanted my crown and hw100 to be the BR rifles.....they were clinical at 50, but at 25 yards I was getting 235's no matter what I did......in the end I ditched the crown and got a HFT 500 and scores started to rise.......I ditched the 6-24 scope and got the sentinel...scores went up.....then migrated to a fixed 36x sightron and along with the HFT500 got my first 250.......all along the technique was also improving. This was gloved at the back and a smart reloader at the front.....
I swapped barrels on my HW100 and now it matches the HFT500 and TM1000. I stupidly sold the HFT500, however I still have two BR setups.....the stranger thing is, the Krait with a 6-24 can match both of them
Scores are one aspect.......when you get to 250 its all about the x's.....
1066
Super member
If you are shooting WRABF benchrest rules, with a front and rear bag, and it sounds as if you are, then I would say, the first thing I would do is go back to pellet testing. There's accuracy, then there's benchrest accuracy, a single mm makes a difference.
Until your rifle/pellet combination is capable of putting them through a single hole consistently, not much larger that the pellet itself, at 25 yards indoors from a fixed rest then you will never get regular 250's.
Only once you have confidence in your equipment is it worth worrying about head position, trigger control, cheek weld, breathing, wind reading and all the other bits that go into making the perfect shot.
With a recoilless PCP a fixed rest could be as simple and a standard workmate, with a couple of heavy sacks of sand for added stability or a couple of G cramps on the side of a bench.
Test pellets outdoors is fine if you're seeing how they react in the wind, but you need to know they go through the same hole with zero wind first.
Check the velocity is consistent for the whole string.
Get someone who is a regular 250 shooter to try your rifle. Ask to have a go with their rifle.
Until your rifle/pellet combination is capable of putting them through a single hole consistently, not much larger that the pellet itself, at 25 yards indoors from a fixed rest then you will never get regular 250's.
Only once you have confidence in your equipment is it worth worrying about head position, trigger control, cheek weld, breathing, wind reading and all the other bits that go into making the perfect shot.
With a recoilless PCP a fixed rest could be as simple and a standard workmate, with a couple of heavy sacks of sand for added stability or a couple of G cramps on the side of a bench.
Test pellets outdoors is fine if you're seeing how they react in the wind, but you need to know they go through the same hole with zero wind first.
Check the velocity is consistent for the whole string.
Get someone who is a regular 250 shooter to try your rifle. Ask to have a go with their rifle.
keithy
Super member
There is alot that go wrong you need the same grip every time if the gun is held loose it will move when you pull the trigger if you are not looking exactly thro the scope centerline you will get cant errors also having to hold the gun on target due to wrong body position will cause errors. Relax your hold and see if the gun drops off to say the left then thats were your pellets will go. I used to shoot anshults rim fire at 25 yds with open sights the gun used to bounce up slightly if it came down exactly on target then you knew it you had hit the bull for a ten.
1066
Super member
Have you thought about trying NSRA rules benchrest - flat forearm rest and no rear bag, shot from the shoulder. Much more about the technique of shooting.
Right, here's your list to do.
1. Find the rifles most consistant 20 shots in your charge, that will require a full shot string on the chroney using weighed pellets. Forget the fact its regulated, that doesn't mean the entire string will be the same.
Once you are confident where that is, use weighed pellets in your BR.
2. Before you begin your BR have a play where the rifle is most consistant in its charge, that means 10 shots at the same point without moving the rifle.
3. If your BR is different from your test then its your body reset that's inconsistant, resetting your head, resetting your trigger position and general posture.
4. About your reset. When you shoot your pre BR test, make a mental note of where your body is, where your head is and where your hand/finger is. Write it down, body/head/finger on a piece of paper, take notes about yourself. When on the BR, set your body, set your head and your finger the way you wrote it down.
1. Find the rifles most consistant 20 shots in your charge, that will require a full shot string on the chroney using weighed pellets. Forget the fact its regulated, that doesn't mean the entire string will be the same.
Once you are confident where that is, use weighed pellets in your BR.
2. Before you begin your BR have a play where the rifle is most consistant in its charge, that means 10 shots at the same point without moving the rifle.
3. If your BR is different from your test then its your body reset that's inconsistant, resetting your head, resetting your trigger position and general posture.
4. About your reset. When you shoot your pre BR test, make a mental note of where your body is, where your head is and where your hand/finger is. Write it down, body/head/finger on a piece of paper, take notes about yourself. When on the BR, set your body, set your head and your finger the way you wrote it down.
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tac
Super member
Whenever my shooting gets a little 'fraught', I just slow my heartbeat down to around 38 and shoot between beats. Works for me.
Right Cant
Super member
I've always wondered if I'd be better with a couple of pints in me to calm myself down 
i am being serious 
i am being serious
Mark Palmer
Member Extraordinaire
Trigger is paramount, did a quick video of pull vs squeeze. When I'm pulling and over extending my finger you can see the tension in my thumb muscle and wrist, lots of muscle movement. When I squeeze and only go as far as the end of my thumb, there is no tension in the wrist and thumb. When you squeeze any trigger, the finger must not extend past where your thumb would normally sit otherwise you'll start pulling your hand and wrist out of shape and pull shots.
Flinty
Super member
This will probably upset some shooters but In my opinion shooting groups is easier than shooting 1 shot per target, it's something I only do when trying to find a pellet that's worth testing properly.
You say in your first post that you shoot with front and rear rests so that should be a fairly stable platform given that's ok then the first 2 things I would be looking at are the Head position and the trigger control both are vital to shooing consistently, first head position this is something I have problems with so when practicing (not in comps) I now have a scope maximizer see link this lets you position your eye in the same place, by using this me hope is that I will develop the habit of putting my head where it needs to be, will this work don't know yet? Now the trigger as @nav2022 said is important I find that to achieve this the first thing is the grip on the stock you need to be comfortable and repeat the same hold every time, then you need to put the trigger blade in exactly the same spot on your trigger finger then squeeze that way you will learn to feel the release point, now you're into BR,ing this is very important for consistency you're no longer trying the shoot a 5 pence (18mm) group at 25 yards you need to be within 1mm of the center of the target if not it's a 9.
As most people have said practice practice over and over, but always remember practice is no good unless you're practicing the right thing, if you practice bad habits you will become an expert in Wrong.
One of the best exercises to do is take the rifle uncocked with no pellet loaded. While its on both rests get in position, put your hand on the grip and finger on the first stage, assume your normal position. Aim dead center of the BR target and pull the trigger past the second stage. If you see the cross hair move off the BR then you're pulling. If all is ok, switch targets and do another simulated dry run. Do all ten and you'll see if your finger pulls you off the bull. You can't do this with a pellet loaded because the slight jerk of the rifle won't let you see it.
I've just realised the forum is 25 targets not 20.
If you're hitting a 233 then that's at least 17 nines if you are pretty close but could mean lower scores on some then more tens of course.
I'd like to see your target to see how far you are off. If you hit 17 nines then you're not far off and its just minor adjustments to your technique. I hit a 238 with my Akela with no X's on a target someone left on the range last year. I didn't beat myself up about it, the Akela just can't go the extra mile and I'd probably never improve on 235 to 238 ish. I thought 12 bull misses was awesome lol.
Keep going, you'll get there.
If you're hitting a 233 then that's at least 17 nines if you are pretty close but could mean lower scores on some then more tens of course.
I'd like to see your target to see how far you are off. If you hit 17 nines then you're not far off and its just minor adjustments to your technique. I hit a 238 with my Akela with no X's on a target someone left on the range last year. I didn't beat myself up about it, the Akela just can't go the extra mile and I'd probably never improve on 235 to 238 ish. I thought 12 bull misses was awesome lol.
Keep going, you'll get there.