Went to the club today and am struggling with a consistent release. Sometimes it's perfect to the extent I hit two X's in a row, then missed the target. I can hear the string on release and it's a dull thud not a twang. Clearly some of that is me, but it happens a bit too much. Trimming the tab has improved it considerably, but I can't help wondering if the underlying problem is too acute angle on the string when drawn. At the moment I have a 68" recurve take-down with a draw of nearly 30", measured from the root of the nock to the front of the riser/handle casting. I bought it on the basis of a crude chart which compared it to my height (5'10"). But looking at other people in the club they seem to have far wider angle on their string because they are 6" shorter than me with the same size bow (French are short). I think I should be using at least a 70" and that is part of my problem, or am I being stupid?
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the Daily hi thread
Is my bow too short?
- Thread starter Gers32
- Start date
skeet_200
Proactive member
Your draw length does not seem excessive for a 68" bow. I used to shoot with a world class archer who drew 30.5" with a 68" bow (50lb draw weight). A short bow generally gives a faster cast than a long bow for a given weight. However, a drawback can be finger pinching caused by the acute angle of the string.
USA Bubba
Super member
Bow should be OK for your draw length. Tuning a recurve is a balancing act to achieve good results. I would look at the basics - check your tiller, check nock fit on the string for all of your arrows. A tight nock can cause a twang on release as can the wrong tiller. I've had many nocks from the same package that are too tight. A little really fine sandpaper can adjust one but I would just toss it. Check your brace height as it affects string length. Strings might need to be adjusted by twisting or untwisting but never totally straight. Correct tiller and brace height should give you a quiet release, assuming you have a good release. You might need a custom string to get it all correct. I have a bag full of junk strings I made to get it all correct.
TIP - If you take your bow down after each session loop one end loop through the other and then back again to keep the length.
I would start with the brace height and tiller for your bow then nock fit. A good release will fix many issues.
TIP - If you take your bow down after each session loop one end loop through the other and then back again to keep the length.
I would start with the brace height and tiller for your bow then nock fit. A good release will fix many issues.
I don't have the brace height figure, @USA Bubba ,but the tiller is set correctly and the original 5mm nocks have all been replaced with 4mm which appear to release well. Pleased you both have said the bow length is OK because finding another one will be time consuming.
Finger pinching is what I was worried about @skeet_200 . My finger tab is an Avelon item, but I replaced the spacer block between my fingers because the original felt too uncomfortable and I fitted a much narrower one. Perhaps it is time to change it back? I spent the morning mixing mortar and pointing stonework and perhaps that affected the action of my fingers on release?
This is a problem that has crept in since I added twists to the string, which worked great initially, but now I have improved the random errors are becoming more apparent.
Finger pinching is what I was worried about @skeet_200 . My finger tab is an Avelon item, but I replaced the spacer block between my fingers because the original felt too uncomfortable and I fitted a much narrower one. Perhaps it is time to change it back? I spent the morning mixing mortar and pointing stonework and perhaps that affected the action of my fingers on release?
This is a problem that has crept in since I added twists to the string, which worked great initially, but now I have improved the random errors are becoming more apparent.
USA Bubba
Super member
Out of tune bow will magnify any errors in your release as will the wrong arrows. A brace height figure for the bow should be available. What model riser and limbs?
It's a pretty old bow @USA Bubba and a mix. No marks on the 25" riser except MSM on the plastic handle. The limbs that came with it are marked France Archerie, made in Korea. The limbs now fitted are Samick, old system connection, so before ILT.
The arrow spine stiffness is based on the Easton charts which roughly match the Skylon charts. Easton 1916 is 623 and with the same data Skylon say 650. They do feel a bit stiff and I will check all the figures before ordering replacements because my initial thoughts were to buy 700's. But they were bought to start with erring on the stiff side because my draw and poundage were likely to increase, which they did slightly.
I tried the supplied finger tab spacer block and it now feels OK, so my fingers have changed slightly. I will refit it and try again. I have noticed there is a nock point shape pressed into the leather on the second finger position. I might be dragging on that but am clearly too close to the nock?
The arrow spine stiffness is based on the Easton charts which roughly match the Skylon charts. Easton 1916 is 623 and with the same data Skylon say 650. They do feel a bit stiff and I will check all the figures before ordering replacements because my initial thoughts were to buy 700's. But they were bought to start with erring on the stiff side because my draw and poundage were likely to increase, which they did slightly.
I tried the supplied finger tab spacer block and it now feels OK, so my fingers have changed slightly. I will refit it and try again. I have noticed there is a nock point shape pressed into the leather on the second finger position. I might be dragging on that but am clearly too close to the nock?
USA Bubba
Super member
Spine is a real juggling act. Heavy point to get your FOC in the ballpark will weaken the arrow and heavy nock and fletchings will raise the spine. Best way to check is either paper tune or bare shaft. I was able to shoot bare shafts at 40 yards and hit the center area on a large round butt. If you shoot an arrow at about 5 yards into a target you can read the spine based on how the arrow sticks into the target before the fletching has a chance to stabilize the arrow. Paper tune is the same except you shoot through a sheet of newspaper on a frame about a 2 yards in front of you and look at the tear the arrow makes in the paper. Now you can check spine and nocking point with either method and adjust tiller or nocking point.
I would start at about 8.5 -9 inches ( 21.5 - 22.9 cm) for brace height.
I see you're in France - I'm impressed with your English.
I would start at about 8.5 -9 inches ( 21.5 - 22.9 cm) for brace height.
I see you're in France - I'm impressed with your English.
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Thanks for that @USA Bubba . I think my brace height is thereabouts at that? Bare shafts I was advised are for someone who can already shoot well and is tuning for perfection. At the moment I am nowhere near. I am searching for a big random error, which can only be my release I think at this stage. Three arrows bang on target (8+) then one or two complete misses, of score 4 or less.
I do live in France and my wife is French, but my first language is English. French Nationality is certainly an option, but I prefer being British in France because the longer I am here, the less I want to be French. Their language is over complicated for no good reason, just like everything else they do. Sometimes you do get a 'breath of fresh air' when something is incredibly simple, but that's a rare event.
I do live in France and my wife is French, but my first language is English. French Nationality is certainly an option, but I prefer being British in France because the longer I am here, the less I want to be French. Their language is over complicated for no good reason, just like everything else they do. Sometimes you do get a 'breath of fresh air' when something is incredibly simple, but that's a rare event.
USA Bubba
Super member
You should number your arrows so you can see if the same one is always the flier. It could be the nock fit or the fletching is hitting. I missed a state record score by three points due to a fletching hit. I broke a nock on a target and changed it while walking to the next. It was what Pennsylvania calls "Field/Hunter Round" where you shoot 14 paper animal targets one day and then 14 round circle targets the next day. The target was a goose that was about 20 inches wide by 12 inches high at about 18 yards. All I would have needed was a hit in the body for 4 points. The first 3 were in the 5 ring and the 4th was a flier that missed the paper. I wasn't careful enough with nock alignment due to walking and talking. Nobodies fault but my own.
Bare shaft is for perfection however if your tune is too far out bad form or release is magnified. I shot bad tune and spine when I started and I think I learned better form and release due to the big errors in score. I wouldn't recommend it but I think it helped me.
Bare shaft is for perfection however if your tune is too far out bad form or release is magnified. I shot bad tune and spine when I started and I think I learned better form and release due to the big errors in score. I wouldn't recommend it but I think it helped me.
crissdee
Super member
This in a language that has 194 irregular verbs, more than any other language in the world iirc, not even mentioning the whole "their/there/they're" business, or "through/tough/though" or "where/wear/ware".....
I tried the 'mark the flier' experiment @USA Bubba . Shot 5 rounds of 6 arrows and when I finished 5 different arrows had a mark on them, so absolutely, definitely a 'me' error. Talking of nock positioning error. I put 6 new nocks in the inserts and came to shoot them. I had fitted the groove in line with the index flight, not a 90 degrees to it. Another error was marking the top nocking point then putting it below the tape, not above it, so the lower arrow flight hit the bow, but remarkably took the 'blue arrow' accuracy test and passed it (just with 290, needed 280 ex 360) in that condition!
Good points @crissdee , but in French which of the spellings should I use for good?
Good points @crissdee , but in French which of the spellings should I use for good?
USA Bubba
Super member
One thing that might help, if you're allowed at your club, is stand near the butt (about 4-5 feet away) and shoot with your eyes closed. Don't worry about aiming just concentrate on your release. Just listen for the click and release. It takes some of the stress out of the shot.
I can do that @USA Bubba , because I have keys to the place now and can go when I want. Problem is the 'official' afternoons are getting a bit too crowded and it's all too rushed, so you are under pressure to shoot your 6 so that the others can then collect theirs from the targets. Not a good environment for improving in my opinion. So I now go alone on a different afternoon. I'll try it next time.
It doesn't sound to me that your bow is too short for you. A rough guide is with your bow assembled and strung, place the tip of the bottom limb on your toe, stand up straight and the tip of the upper limb should be level with your eyebrows.
The occasional wayward arrow could quite possibly be down to any of the issues already mentioned, but just add to the mix, here's a couple more to consider:
"Torquing the bow" usually caused by twisting the bow on release, producing a left/right deflection in the arrow. Solution watch your grip on the bow, try wearing a thin glove on your bow hand and loosen your grip on the bow, index ginger and thumb is all you should need at most and remember the knuckles of your bow hand should be at about 45° to the riser.
Proper grip will rotate the forearm out of the way of the string.
"Dropping the bow arm on release". Quite a common one this. At the point of release the bow arm drops, pulls to one side, or a combination of the two, deflecting the arrow. It's a difficult one to spot yourself as it can happen very quickly and involuntary. It usually needs an observer to spot it. It can happen with fatigue and the only way to stop it is to be mindful of it, but it does get better with practice.
I hope this helps.
The occasional wayward arrow could quite possibly be down to any of the issues already mentioned, but just add to the mix, here's a couple more to consider:
"Torquing the bow" usually caused by twisting the bow on release, producing a left/right deflection in the arrow. Solution watch your grip on the bow, try wearing a thin glove on your bow hand and loosen your grip on the bow, index ginger and thumb is all you should need at most and remember the knuckles of your bow hand should be at about 45° to the riser.
Proper grip will rotate the forearm out of the way of the string.
"Dropping the bow arm on release". Quite a common one this. At the point of release the bow arm drops, pulls to one side, or a combination of the two, deflecting the arrow. It's a difficult one to spot yourself as it can happen very quickly and involuntary. It usually needs an observer to spot it. It can happen with fatigue and the only way to stop it is to be mindful of it, but it does get better with practice.
I hope this helps.
MikeyB
Member Extraordinaire
I’ve always thought the historic criteria for bow length to be suspect. I’m 5’ 9” with a 28, 5/8” arrow - received wisdom would suggest I need a 68” bow (which I did use for about 6 years). I never felt comfortable with it - the acute angle at the nock pinched my fingers together and also forced me to nod my head forward to touch my nose on the string. A few years back I switched to a 70” set up and saw immediate improvements to my form. It’s considerably more comfortable. Look at Korean women (arguably the most successful recurve archers of all time), they’re typically short in stature but, most of their international team have used 70” bows for many years now.
With the bow strung I measured the length @Fbrit , one end on my foot and the other just brushing my eyebrow, so to that measurement it is OK. As to grip, mine is similar to the 4th on the first row and as the 1st on the second. There is no pressure on the grip, but I find it comfortable with my fingers there because the handle is a cheap plastic moulding, which I have had a file to, but can't be changed any more. I try to keep the sight on the target until the arrow lands as instructed, which I manage to do.
Well @MikeyB, that has thrown a spanner in the works because I had pretty much accepted the 68" was going to do well enough, but now I'm leaning heavily towards 70" when I replace it. Physically I think it will suit me better and may be as yourself, wondering why I didn't get one in the first place. The answer is simple in my case. I advertised in the club for a 68" or 70" and the only one that turned up was 68", from a chap at least 6" shorter than me who had switched to a LH. Won't know until I try one.
Well @MikeyB, that has thrown a spanner in the works because I had pretty much accepted the 68" was going to do well enough, but now I'm leaning heavily towards 70" when I replace it. Physically I think it will suit me better and may be as yourself, wondering why I didn't get one in the first place. The answer is simple in my case. I advertised in the club for a 68" or 70" and the only one that turned up was 68", from a chap at least 6" shorter than me who had switched to a LH. Won't know until I try one.
If I understand this correctly, you are holding the bow with straight grip, rather than a 45° angle. This will encourage torquing as well as placing your forearm in the path of the bow string. Both of these will interfere with you point of aim. If I were you, I'd experiment with the open grip of 45°, you will soon see how the forearm rotates put of the way of the bowstring allowing for a straighter bow arm and wrist ( this may also increase your draw length slightly). Always use a bow sling around your wrist to prevent you from dropping your bow!
If you are considering changing the length of your bow (nothing wrong with that, whatever works for you), consider replacing just the limbs rather than the complete bow.
USA Bubba
Super member
I use 2 part epoxy putty to form the grip to my hand. It makes a consistent grip possible when the bow fits. I assume you use a finger sling so you don't grab the bow as you release?
USA Bubba
Super member
I had that problem here. We shoot 3 then score. The compound shooters would shoot 3 in the time it took me to shoot 2 then stand and stare at me to finish. Our conference shoots allow 2 1/2 minutes to shoot 3 so I always timed my shots for rest and recovery between arrows. I try to get out of sync with the compound shooters near me so I don't hear the click from their release and think it's my clicker.
Retired so I can go anytime now.
I used a finger sling and found it irritating so stopped. At that point my scores then improved a lot, but I accept the grip could be a problem and I'll focus on that. I don't use a clicker or balance weights. My intention is bare bow eventually. We have a nice guy in the club who outshoots everyone with their sights, clickers and weights. He's pretty impressive and quick with it.