nikvanorton
Member Extraordinaire
The 7.5J pistol/16J rifle models are legal full stop, with frangible or rubber ammo. Whether they are airguns or paintball markers they are still below the legal limit.
-
the Daily hi thread
Legality of T4E guns such as HDR 68, HDB 68, Glock 17 Gen5 .43
- Thread starter Albo1996
- Start date
The 7.5J pistol/16J rifle models are legal full stop, with frangible or rubber ammo. Whether they are airguns or paintball markers they are still below the legal limit.
TD_boy
Member Extraordinaire
Same as it's always been - they are illegal.
Get caught with one off a paintball site and see what happens...
Luckily someone is already testing this in court for you I understand.
Rather him than me.
Paintball & Airsoft Guns and Tactical Gear
The Best Paintball and Airsoft guns, equipment, and supplies available from Modern Combat Sports. Our range includes clothing, paintballs, BB's and more.
moderncombatsports.co.uk
Plinkerton
Proactive member
Yeah I would probably not rush to buy one just this minute.
but not classified as a paintball marker and I would think you may need a defence for them
People buy them as paintball markers and as such for frangible ammo use
Last edited:
Darren Petts
Enormous Member 🍆
The problem is if there is any ammendment to any gun law it will only ever be to tighten it. The chance of any ammendment relaxing or allowing anything more is almost nil. Only the co2 coming off ticket springs to mind as any win at all.
Expanding ammunition came off section 5 in 2017 ( only applies to section 1 shooters ) .
Moderators MAY be coming off Ticket for Section !and MAY be able to be posted by RFDs rather than face to face as it now if it ever happens .
Sometimes , some get relaxed.
nikvanorton
Member Extraordinaire
You don't need a defence to buy a paintball marker. Most dealers have voluntarily decided to requite membership of the UKPSF before purchase.
ven
Member Extraordinaire
Use these most of the time, last purchase off these other than another mag and ammo, the hk416 t4e. Always excellent service and fast shipping. A recommend from me also. Not always the cheapest, but rather shop and know I’m in good handsNot sure on legality but this is the best place to buy,comes with five mags instead of one,Paintball & Airsoft Guns and Tactical Gear
The Best Paintball and Airsoft guns, equipment, and supplies available from Modern Combat Sports. Our range includes clothing, paintballs, BB's and more.
Exactly what I am saying - sold as paintball marker for use with frangible ammo.
I dont think they could be sold as .50/.68 cal for rubber/steel bullets and RIF looks without a defence.
Its like re-enabling a disabled firearm.
My assumption would be they’d need to be at least two toned to be free.
nikvanorton
Member Extraordinaire
These guns are not classed as RIFs (neither are bb replicas) so can not require a defence or two tone paint.
Assuming they are below the legal limit when firing solid ammo they would fall under air gun legislation. The only problem that creates is posting out directly and that's where the grey area is. Sold as paintball guns it's fine, and you're not breaking any laws by subsequently using them as air guns with solid ammo since it's the dealers decision to post directly and the way it was delivered can’t make the actual thing illegal from then on. I honestly can't imagine anyone knocking on your door to find out how a parcel was delivered.
As a side note, I tried some alloy balls in my Glock T4E and it reduced the power. With rubber balls it is about 4fps and the only way you'll get one of those over the limit is by dropping it from a tall building
Of course, this is not the case with the revolvers, the 11Joule & 'tuned' models are another matter altogether.
Gun laws have ended up being very contradictory in this country, and sometimes there isn't actually a clear answer. The problem is that these threads often end up with a lot of incorrect info which can be even more misleading.
Last edited:
nikvanorton
Member Extraordinaire
Interestingly, the T4e automatic pistols work in the same way a Makarov mp654k does, the projectile is fired from the magazine and into the barrel. That’s what limits the power on these.
You dont seem to understand what I am saying I try to break it down for you:These guns are not classed as RIFs (neither are bb replicas) so can not require a defence or two tone paint.
Assuming they are below the legal limit when firing solid ammo they would fall under air gun legislation. The only problem that creates is posting out directly and that's where the grey area is. Sold as paintball guns it's fine, and you're not breaking any laws by subsequently using them as air guns with solid ammo since it's the dealers decision to post directly and the way it was delivered can’t make the actual thing illegal from then on. I honestly can't imagine anyone knocking on your door to find out how a parcel was delivered.
As a side note, I tried some alloy balls in my Glock T4E and it reduced the power. With rubber balls it is about 4fps and the only way you'll get one of those over the limit is by dropping it from a tall building
Of course, this is not the case with the revolvers, the 11Joule & 'tuned' models are another matter altogether.
Gun laws have ended up being very contradictory in this country, and sometimes there isn't actually a clear answer. The problem is that these threads often end up with a lot of incorrect info which can be even more misleading.
- these are sold as paintball markers
- they are as such classified as paintball markers
- using them differently no longer makes them paintball markers
As such: if this is not a paintball marker anymore
- it wouldnt be sold as one
- especially looking like a RIF
- probably would require two tone to be free
- probably would be classified as something needing a defence
I have a nerf gun that due to its characteristics has become a RIF as per the local FEO’s judgement
nikvanorton
Member Extraordinaire
We’re going to have to agree to disagree here, I don’t have the time to go round in circles. On the basis of your argument my t4e shape-shifts from paintball marker to RIF and back again multiple times on a single day as I use different ammo. I’d need lots of aerosols and paint stripper! 
These guns are not classed as RIFs (neither are bb replicas) so can not require a defence or two tone paint.
Assuming they are below the legal limit when firing solid ammo they would fall under air gun legislation. The only problem that creates is posting out directly and that's where the grey area is. Sold as paintball guns it's fine, and you're not breaking any laws by subsequently using them as air guns with solid ammo since it's the dealers decision to post directly and the way it was delivered can’t make the actual thing illegal from then on. I honestly can't imagine anyone knocking on your door to find out how a parcel was delivered.
As a side note, I tried some alloy balls in my Glock T4E and it reduced the power. With rubber balls it is about 4fps and the only way you'll get one of those over the limit is by dropping it from a tall building
Of course, this is not the case with the revolvers, the 11Joule & 'tuned' models are another matter altogether.
Gun laws have ended up being very contradictory in this country, and sometimes there isn't actually a clear answer. The problem is that these threads often end up with a lot of incorrect info which can be even more misleading.
Thank you, your posts and the information from everyone has been most helpful! So in general we can assume that any of the pistols including the revolvers sold as 7.5J and the shotguns below 16J are all legal with any ammo currently on the market.
How does this work with other paintball guns outside of the T4E range? Say the Tippman TMC Elite? If you was to purchase these guns and take them down to the range doing some target practice with rubber ammo would this likely fall outside of the law?
I can’t find absolutely any information on the power output of the Tippman TMC Elite nor can I find information on the power output for most paintball markers outside of the T4E range.
I know with the Tippman TMC Elite you could put rubber ammo in and adjust the power screw to be below legal power levels for what would now be an air rifle. Though would this be considered illegal? As it would be possible to adjust the power should you want to do so? Though if you was careful to make sure the gun was always firing at the legal limits for air rifles would this actually be illegal?
I’m not interested in the Tippman TMC Elite, just using it as an example to see how this would work legally. As most paintball markers appear to be the same outside of the T4E range as they have a screw to adjust the power levels.
I’m only really interested in the Glock 17 Gen5 which we have already established would be way below the legal power levels. Just trying to get a well rounded grasp on the law surrounding this entire subject of paintball markers being used as air guns.
If you don’t mind me asking, what do you think of your Glock T4E? With it being well below the power limits for air guns, are you still happy with the performance on targets?
Benp
Super member
Yep, this.I can't see most ranges being happy about the rubber balls pinging around the place
They'll come right back at you and everyone else shooting. I wouldn't bother.
If you want a range pistol for target practice then get something made for the job.
You dont seem to understand what I am saying I try to break it down for you:
- these are sold as paintball markers
- they are as such classified as paintball markers
- using them differently no longer makes them paintball markers
As such: if this is not a paintball marker anymore
- it wouldnt be sold as one
- especially looking like a RIF
- probably would require two tone to be free
- probably would be classified as something needing a defence
I have a nerf gun that due to its characteristics has become a RIF as per the local FEO’s judgement
After spending hours reading through legislation it does appear that he is right. Air guns which produce more than 1 joule are not considered under RIF legislation and as such do not require painting two tone nor do they need a valid defence.
If you Google this subject you will see that it has been covered on many of forums.
This is one of the first things that comes up on a quick search
Why is it in the UK airsoft guns, which are toys, are restricted (UKARA) but airguns, which are weapons, are not. You can freely buy a 4....
Answer (1 of 3): Because the people who make the laws don’t know that an air pistol can be a RIF it really is that simple.
While it appears absurd that you can’t purchase an air soft gun without having it two tone as it’s considered a RIF but you can buy a .22 or .177 air pistol and it looks exactly the same. It still appears that they are excluded from RIF legislation.
Justso
Well-known member
Found this on you tube,
nikvanorton
Member Extraordinaire
You've lost me now, who's right?
Glock .43 is a great tool - very well built, great fun. Trigger pull a bit wierd as it pulls the barrel towards the mag at the same time so feels a bit long & heavy. Blowback a little short but overall a cracking plinker, more suited to destroying cans in the garden than on a range I think
If it's not a paintball marker anymore it's an air weapon...it wouldn't need to be two tone any more than other replica firearm airguns like Sig Virtus rifle or a Walther PPQ M2 pistol, surely?You dont seem to understand what I am saying I try to break it down for you:
- these are sold as paintball markers
- they are as such classified as paintball markers
- using them differently no longer makes them paintball markers
As such: if this is not a paintball marker anymore
- it wouldnt be sold as one
- especially looking like a RIF
- probably would require two tone to be free
- probably would be classified as something needing a defence
I have a nerf gun that due to its characteristics has become a RIF as per the local FEO’s judgement