zeroing

[chouchin66]

It is of course common etiquette to state that there is no such thing as a stupid question - and thank for for that.
I however state to clients that this is 'the norm' but that there are plenty of stupid questions and that worst-case-scenario we will laugh together.

I dialed back to somewhere near neutral and the first 4 shots were in ring 3 (ring 1 being the dartboard 25). I adjusted left, contrary to my "logic" above and the next 6 are within or clip ring 1. One and only one clipped the actual bull. I will continue attempting to kill, or at least mildly worry, the paper over the next week or so..

Assuming hand-held how do you ever stop the wandering / wobbling ?

Long & practiced proper shooting stance, whereby your contact( as much as is possible) bone/ bone - elbow to hip/ rib, forming a triangular support, non reliant on muscle input for steadiness. Orientation of feet to target & proper spacing of same. Believe it or not, a heavier gun aids one in the steadiness endeavor also.

 

[TR158]

Let’s just nip one thing in the bud….

Mate, absolutely no such thing as a stupid question. Even the experts here started somewhere.

Just keep asking and never, ever feel like an idiot. That attitude is banned!

I will just add to what Jay said... We 'experts' have learnt one thing... we're all still learning

Another thing you will (hopefully) learn is that one gun is never enough

 

[Gummage]

To stop the wandering look to brace yourself against something, door or window frame, if standing,get your feet apart.
If you can use a support on the front end of the rifle( not the barrel), an old t shirt stuffed with other soft clothing costs nothing, use it to help support your front hand.
When aiming, try to use your skeleton as a bipod rather than muscular effort, and hold your breath with lungs not fully empty or full.
Then, be gentle on how you let the trigger off so as not to 'pull' your aim, indeed, continue to follow the shot through the scope to see it land, and keep the trigger 'pulled'.

 

[BallisticBill]

I dialed back to somewhere near neutral and the first 4 shots were in ring 3 (ring 1 being the dartboard 25). I adjusted left, contrary to my "logic" above
and the next 6 are within or clip ring 1. One and only one clipped the actual bull. I will continue attempting to kill, or at least mildly worry, the paper over the next week or so..

Assuming hand-held how do you ever stop the wandering / wobbling ?

Hold the rifle gently so you are relaxed and don't vary your hold, keep up the practice, and you will become more consistent.

It's perhaps worth mentioning the adjustment mechanism screws operate by pressing on a tube inside the scope, which returns under spring pressure when the screws are wound out. It's possible in cheaper scopes that the spring isn't applying enough pressure at one extreme of the adjustment range. Then there's enough slack for the reticle to move independently of the turret adjustment or to shift position with each shot. So it's possible your earlier spread of shot was partly down to the scope.

One thing you need to take into account, at very short range (<10yards) the hold under/over becomes very sensitive to errors in range estimation. For example, if your barrel axis intersects the line of sight at 10yds, and your scope is positioned 2" above the barrel, at 5yds the barrel axis will be pointed 1" below the line of sight. If the rat moves a yard or two back or forth you could be 1/2" out with your aim. At short range, open sights would easier, or set your scope as low as possible provided that doesn't compromise your head position and a comfortable hold.

 

[sharky]

Thanks yet again folks, I do have a very small beanbag that I bought for this purpose but didn't know whether that was aiding or hindering (as with much of what I have been doing).

Someone mentioned that .22 suffers fall off (or such) more than 0.17 but when I purchased I had assumed that this would be of no relevance over the very short distance - is this not the case.

Also, not wishing to labour the point or insult anyone but I am struggling with windage logic and think that it may be due to a daft misunderstanding of the labelling of the turret.

If my POI are right of target then surely that means I need to move the reticle to the right so that when I (attempt to) realign the scope and barrel to centre my POI has moved left. I had been assuming that the turret label left:right mean the direction of movement of the reticle but does it actually not mean that at all, but the required movement of the POI? ie if I want POI to left then yes I should dial left even though actually I am moving the reticle right?

Worryingly perhaps this seems logical to me, other than the 'mis-labelling'

I have tutored a bit of photography in the past and this is similar to the larger depth of field = small aperture = large F number scenario where it is easier just to remove or ignore the centre element of the statement.

 

[BallisticBill]

L and R labels refer to changing POI, not reticle.

Put the rifle in a vice or hold it absolutely still. Take a shot then adjust the ret to the POI. If the shot was to the right you will see L moves the ret to the right, which brings the barrel (and POI) to the left relative to line of sight.

Similarly with elevation: Up brings ret down; barrel (and POI) goes up relative to line of sight.

 

[Dogman]

It is of course common etiquette to state that there is no such thing as a stupid question - and thank for for that.
I however state to clients that this is 'the norm' but that there are plenty of stupid questions and that worst-case-scenario we will laugh together.

I dialed back to somewhere near neutral and the first 4 shots were in ring 3 (ring 1 being the dartboard 25). I adjusted left, contrary to my "logic" above and the next 6 are within or clip ring 1. One and only one clipped the actual bull. I will continue attempting to kill, or at least mildly worry, the paper over the next week or so..

Assuming hand-held how do you ever stop the wandering / wobbling ?

Take a knee, rest on a chair or something whatever works

 

[joe average]

Someone mentioned that .22 suffers fall off (or such) more than 0.17 but when I purchased I had assumed that this would be of no relevance over the very short distance - is this not the case.

not something you need to worry about at the distance you mentioned in your opening post

 

[Audi Swift]

I see you' live in Worcestershire.
There's a good couple of gun clubs / ranges what you could visit and have some face to face help. What might be quicker or easier to sort out this issue.
Airgunning is always a learning curve and experience comes in time, and for most of us learning never stops!

Maybe Google these to start with, I will post links etc when I can do as I'm multi-tasking here =
Throckmorton
Furnace Mill
Nomads

 

[Wing Commander]

If my POI are right of target then surely that means I need to move the reticle to the right so that when I (attempt to) realign the scope and barrel to centre my POI has moved left. I had been assuming that the turret label left:right mean the direction of movement of the reticle but does it actually not mean that at all, but the required movement of the POI? ie if I want POI to left then yes I should dial left even though actually I am moving the reticle right?

The "L" and "R" on the windage turret refers to our view of where we want the point of impact to be.
If the shots are landing to the right, the windage needs to be adjusted to the left.
The reticle stays still.... it is the image which moves.

Similarly for the other turret. If the shots are landing low, adjust to go up.

 

[OldStock]

Scopes aside, with springers, it pays to practice rested, but with your hand, or something consistent and compliant under the front, to allow recoil take up, and to 'feel' the shot.

Shooting a springer is like throwing a boomerang, it is a movement rather than an instant, at the trigger pull.
Just like a boomerang the last throw should inform the next, so that muscle memory begins to take some of the strain off.
If the thing kicks 'unusually' during a shot, you should be able to notice that, and work towards the same limited movement each release.
They like to be held but not throttled (I hear).

Close is harder with a scope, especially one that is mounted high, as it creates a sort of triangle between the sight and the trajectory, crossing at the first zero point.
Get the distance wrong, and the impact will be over or under, even with a perfect shot.

One the scope is working for you, and yes I certainly had to learn what input the controls require, it will probably come together much quicker.
The trouble with shots not going where you want, and not having many thousands of shots behind, is the doubt it causes, that undermines the next shot.

Some distance cards where you are intending to shoot, and practice, maybe even a ballistic app so you can more easily visualise the triangular path before first scope zero, and it will come together.

 

[TR158]

Having thought about it a little further, most scopes parallax down to 10 yards, so anything less may well cause an issue with focus and accurate parallax. This being the case, it's likely that the image will 'dance' around, which translates to the aim point varying, unless your cheek/head/eye position is 100% repeatable.

Another issue is the scope potentially creeping due to the nature of recoil with a springer. A springer has a 'double reverse' recoil cycle where it recoils forward, then backwards, which again will translate to accuracy issues if the scope moves. You can tell if this is happening by keeping an eye on the position of the scope mounts on the rifle's rail and on the scope itself relative to where the rings were originally secured.

Most mounts come with 'stop pins' which sit within a hole/detent towards the rear of the action. The mounts still need to be secured fairly well, but not over-tightened, especially the scope rings, to avoid marking or worse yet, crushing the scope body. Depending on the version of Bugbuster you have, positioning the mounts too close to the centre can affect the parallax adjustment if the scope is of the side focus variety.

 

[Byronic]

It is of course common etiquette to state that there is no such thing as a stupid question - and thank for for that.
I however state to clients that this is 'the norm' but that there are plenty of stupid questions and that worst-case-scenario we will laugh together.

I dialed back to somewhere near neutral and the first 4 shots were in ring 3 (ring 1 being the dartboard 25). I adjusted left, contrary to my "logic" above and the next 6 are within or clip ring 1. One and only one clipped the actual bull. I will continue attempting to kill, or at least mildly worry, the paper over the next week or so..

Assuming hand-held how do you ever stop the wandering / wobbling ?

Good progress.

"Assuming hand-held how do you ever stop the wandering / wobbling?"

Repeatability is the key to accuracy - so try to reduce the potential variables.
Do not be afraid to experiment to find what suits you but - apparently inconsistently - sit in exactly the same position once you find something that works.

Ideally, you want to be able to sit there with both eyes closed, pick up your unloaded rifle and "take aim" with your eyes closed then open your eyes to find yourself comfortably looking through the scope and aimed pretty much at the target.
(This is unlikely to happen straight away.)
Why?
Because any holding of the gun with muscle tension involved is adding a potential variable whereas a relaxed position will naturally stay in place.

You mentioned shooting through the office window, I believe?
Can you shoot sitting down?
Perhaps over a desk?
Pillows, household cushions, books etc can be piled up if stable enough - anything to provide a firm base for your leading hand - no need for gadgets right now, I reckon.

It is wise to look into things like eye relief, scope technique etc as all of these will play a part.

Perhaps try sitting at the desk, shooting at a target placed where you would usually find the rats and experiment until you can hit a small target accurately every time to ensure a humane dispatch?

FWIW, in my own case, having gone from struggling to hit a barn door - from inside the barn - to getting one hole, 10 shot groups at my "ratting distance" (which is fairly similar to yours) I had to practice, practice, practice to master all the variables mentioned by other posters.
I sit at the dining table, on a dining chair with my "Shooting table" MDF piece which supports my Right elbow slightly further back, Left hand on a bag filled with cat litter and a relaxed Left hand supporting but not gripping the rifle.
One significant element was finding a consistently repeatable point at which to rest the rifle on my Left hand - on my HW97 I put my finger and thumb on the stock mounting screws then relax which allows my hand to move back maybe half an inch; whatever works for you that can be repeated effortlessly.

Trigger technique, breathing control, follow through and so on are all essential skills which come easily to some people but not all of us (me!)
One point which you have raised is that you are not always consistent with having one or both eyes open - I shoot with my Left eye closed once I am taking aim which should eliminate your variable habit.

If you can get to a Club or Range that will be a great idea - lots of help from the good guys at my Club have transformed my in/accuracy - and somebody watching in person you is far, far better than a million guesses from the Internet, even from AGF.

 

[Byronic]

As your Crosman is a " spring" gun, a few questions :
Are you resting it on an artificial rest/ hard surface ? To go along with previous, how is the trigger pull effort ?
Springers/ Gas rams ( like yours) need to rest( preferably on your hand), exactly the the same place every time, your trigger hand hold needs the same attention to consistency, as does your cheek pressure on stock & stock to your shoulder pocket - all same, every shot... Light hold, so rifle can recoil same way each time.
Pulling shots repeatably to the right ( despite scope adjustment ) sounds like a trigger pulling issue added to the mix also. Only the center of finger tip should touch trigger blade... If you are up to or past the first crease of finger joint, it's too much trigger finger. Each click of your scope @ only 6 yards will only move impact ( 1/4 MOA turrets) ~ 1/64" per click.
Do you shoot both with both eyes open ?
If so, & are right handed, shoot using only right eye open, to eliminate any cross - dominance issues.
Try these suggestions first & see how you get on.

Good points, Chris.

Especially the possibility of the trigger pulling issue as the shots are going right.
The BugBuster does indeed have 1/4 MoA turrets and the eye dominance issue is one which the OP has "self identified."

 

[OrangeSport]

Someone mentioned that .22 suffers fall off (or such) more than 0.17 but when I purchased I had assumed that this would be of no relevance over the very short distance - is this not the case.

The pellet is likely still climbing at this distance.

Have a quick look at pellet trajectory.

 

[Cottis]

I am not familiar with the bug buster or whatever the scope is called but if it has variable magnification, wind it down to the lowest magnification setting and do not touch it. Then look through the scope at a white wall or similar at approx the same sort of distance you will shoot over (using your eye you will aim with and close your other eye) and adjust the ocular adjustment (if it has one, it will be a wind in/out ring on the very end of the scope that your aiming eye is closest to) until the reticle itself (not the image you are looking at) appears clear to your shooting eye against the white background. Once done, do not touch it.

Then shoulder the rifle from your mentioned shooting position where you will shoot the rats from and look through the scope and adjust the focus (it appears to be on the objective bell on the scope you mentioned) until the image you are looking at becomes as clear as possible. Once done, do not touch that again. The scope is now, from an optical point of view, ready to be looked through, by you, correctly at the distance you want/need to use it. Bear in mind that cheap scopes will potentially suffer internal mechanical shifts if you alter zoom, focus, ocular adjustments etc. It is best to "set and forget" these types of scope.

Some potential problems you might have but they are unlikely. The scope or the mounts could be crap or not installed properly. They should be fine for your application but they are not quality items but should still be absolutely fine for shooting rats at spitting distance. The bottom half of the scope mounts that attach to the dovetails on the top of the rifle action, can be done up pretty tight. This is metal on metal and you want a solid, tight union. Once the scope then goes on top of these with the top half of the rings then sandwiching the scope, is when you do not want them to be mega tight. Tight enough to hold it in situ but not bolted down like hulk hogan. Using an allen key, wind the screws in until some resistance is felt and then using the pad of your finger, tighten until firm. Hang on to the scope and yank it to see if it moves but you really do not need to clamp it to within an inch of its life. You could potentially overtighten it and buckle the scope tubing. It seems counter intuitive to not do it up mega tight but you just want an even solid union. I shoot some heavy recoiling centrefire rifles out to many hundreds of yards doing deer control on the family farm and all those scopes are just finger tight and don't move in many years of hard use.

It would be hard to imagine any rifle that could not hit a 5 pence piece at 7yds every time if zeroed correctly and held in a stable position when shot. Your bean bag idea is a good one. Persevere with that if the shooting position is comfortable and stable. It will not harm accuracy at the range you are shooting over.

It is true that shooting piston air rifles requires practice but at 7yds, with a scope, I disagree. Unless you are shooting from a horribly unstable position and are experiencing the reticle in the scope dancing around the target as you shoot, then I feel it will be scope setup that is causing issue.

Personally I would use literally a 1.5 x magnification scope at that range or even open sights (irons) but I looked up your rifle and it does not appear to have them, so is designed to be shot with a scope.

As far as scope reticle adjustment goes, follow the directional arrows on the scope adjustment turrets. It will probably show either "L" or "R" on the windage turret (and U or D or up or down on the elevation turret) If you are seeing the pellet fall to the right of your point of aim, then move the windage turret in the direction L. This will move the reticle to the right which then has the impact of you needing to aim the rifle further left which then brings the point of impact left of where it was previously. If that makes sense. No need to worry about that though, just move the windage turret in the L direction if you want the shot to go further left and vice versa. At such short distance, it will need a considerable amount of turret clicks to move the point of impact. Scope adjustments are often 1/4 MOA which is the approx equivalent of quarter of an inch at 100yds. You are some 14 x closer range wise, which means you will need to turn the turret approx 14 clicks to experience a 1/4" point of impact shift on your scope if you are zeroing it at 7yds. If the scope, mounts or rifle action are not exactly bob on, there is a chance that you could run out of adjustment but that is unlikely. As someone else mentioned, you could try turning the mounts around 180degrees or swapping the rear with the front. This can help sometimes if you run out of adjustment.

Best of luck.

Failing all that, get some glue traps which will catch them and then walk up and literally shoot them from 2 inches away. Glue traps are not very nice but neither are rats. They are a health problem. Is there some food source around? Either you or neighbours? Get rid of that for a start which will begin to make their lives harder. Don't give rats an easy life. They breed like hell and will cause issues.

 

[Pg339]

All of the advice about accurate shooting is great but the OP is complaining about rats in his garden whilst stating that he is feeding the birds and they are under the bird feeders. Of course they are, and feeding very well. Get rid of the bird feeders then you get rid of the rats, with no food source they'll move on.
With regard to the glue boards don't go there. The use of glue boards for rodents is illegal by members of the public, they can only be used by professional pest controllers with the necessary licence.

 

[Byronic]

All of the advice about accurate shooting is great but the OP is complaining about rats in his garden whilst stating that he is feeding the birds and they are under the bird feeders. Of course they are, and feeding very well. Get rid of the bird feeders then you get rid of the rats, with no food source they'll move on.
With regard to the glue boards don't go there. The use of glue boards for rodents is illegal by members of the public, they can only be used by professional pest controllers with the necessary licence.

"Get rid of the bird feeders then you get rid of the rats, with no food source they'll move on."

Did you not read this OP in full?
My added emphasis . . . .

"We feed the birds and a number of neighbours have chickens so the little, or not so little, varmints are not going to decide to vacate of their own free will."

Rats are a problem here, too - nobody nearby feeding birds as far as I know.

 

[Pg339]

"Get rid of the bird feeders then you get rid of the rats, with no food source they'll move on."

Did you not read this OP in full?
My added emphasis . . . .

"We feed the birds and a number of neighbours have chickens so the little, or not so little, varmints are not going to decide to vacate of their own free will."

Rats are a problem here, too - nobody nearby feeding birds as far as I know.

Yes I did read the OP in full. Rats can certainly be a problem anywhere but they must have or are looking for a food source. There may well be other food sources nearby and you may not be able to do anything about that. Shooting any that venture into your garden is a good control measure. My point is, when the OP knows they are feeding from his bird feeders in his garden and numbers are increasing, it would make sense to get rid of the bird feeders. Unless of course he is happy to attract the rats and shoot at them

 

[chouchin66]

Yes I did read the OP in full. Rats can certainly be a problem anywhere but they must have or are looking for a food source. There may well be other food sources nearby and you may not be able to do anything about that. Shooting any that venture into your garden is a good control measure. My point is, when the OP knows they are feeding from his bird feeders in his garden and numbers are increasing, it would make sense to get rid of the bird feeders. Unless of course he is happy to attract the rats and shoot at them

Or....

By having bird feeders & thus getting a rat( s) showing up to shoot at, he's doing all a favor ( no " u" required)...rats will be be where there is food supply & lots of people, especially where poultry is kept. Keeping bird feeders, the OP is both nurturing & attracting songbirds for the masses to enjoy & at same time ridding the rats that others would not, possibly by aversion, shoot. I've bird feeders, but no rats...because I don't have stupid close neighbors, stupid close buildings, sewers, et al...