New filter set up on my Hill EC3000

[sagalout]

WARNING Do NOT use a one way valve for direct to gun fills or any other device without a bleed valve.

Couldn't help meself, kept thinking about @BallisticBill's comments on using a one valve at the compressor output so the filters only see previously filter air or air above valve pressure therefore squeezing more water out of the air before the filters.

Quick look on aliexpress and order this (male one way M10 thread) and this (female/female M10 thread)to make a one way valve. 8 days from order to delivery!

Put it all together like this :


The output of the compressor goes through the small gold, one way valve, small blue, bottom of the medium gold and finally small blue to the bottle. The final small blue is to prevent dust from the sieve in the medium gold going into the bottle.

In use once everything is connected the bottle is open to pressurise the chain with air from the bottle. The compressor is started with it's bleed valve open to clear any water droplets that may be present in the condensate filter. The compressor bleed is closed and the system quickly comes up to bottle pressure and the one way opens.

Filter contents:

The double red lines signify felt pads to separate and contain the filter medium.

With this configuration I can stop a fill at any point, drain the condensate filter and change the first cotton filter whilst the filter chain after the one way valve remains pressurised. I can leave the compressor to cool before resuming and not have to re-pressurise the filter chain.

My first test run with this has produced excellent results. The compressor facing end of the first cotton filter after the compressor normally feels damp on me cheek after putting 30 bar into my 3L bottle. With this system the same test felt very wet, which I assume meant that more moisture was squeezed out by holding back all the compressed air until it reached 200+ bar.

 

[John Pembroke]

Are you using the small tampon type filters that were supplied with the alloy filter housing?
I ask because I gave up with them before even trying them as I thought them to be too small.
I use these as they are a perfect fit in the housing and have greater moisture retention.

 

[sagalout]

Are you using the small tampon type filters

The small blue filters take a small cotton filter, 10x30mm wich is a tight fit. The small gold takes a 10x30mm and a 20x40, the medium gold can hold 3 20x40mm but I have half a 10x30 in the head and tail piece and the main tube is filled with 3A sieve and some self indicating silica gel.

You can see here that the air is hitting the middle of the cotton and the cotton appears to be working.

My small gold which appear to be the same as your blue are shown here

 

[sagalout]

and this (female/female M10 thread)

Whoops, the typist left the link out, here it is

 

[BallisticBill]

If you can't get any joy out of Edgun and their fella contact sub12airgunners. They put the metal ball in mine and replaced another plastic part in the mag advance mechanism with a metal equivalent... it's in one of their L2 videos.

WARNING Do NOT use a one way valve for direct to gun fills or any other device without a bleed valve.

Couldn't help meself, kept thinking about @BallisticBill's comments on using a one valve at the compressor output so the filters only see previously filter air or air above valve pressure therefore squeezing more water out of the air before the filters.

I had in mind a check valve which wouldn't open until the pump output reached 200bar. (I have no idea where you could get buy one.) There would still need to be a bleed on the downstream side. The only difference I can see is the first fill of the filters would be air previously pressurised to 200bar.

Your system looks good for filling large bottles where you need a cooling break but don't want the compressor to restart against high pressure. I don't think it's going to help for guns or small bottles where you don't need a cooling break. Or am I missing something?

 

[sagalout]

I have no idea where you could get buy one.

MDE do a Pressure Maintaining Valve, I'm gonna take a wild guess it costs a bit more than £6

Your system looks good for filling large bottles where you need a cooling break but don't want the compressor to restart against high pressure.

That is what I do now, I stopped filling direct to guns some time ago because you said

Increasing pressure and/or dropping temperature reduces the amount of water required to saturate the air.

so on that basis that the percentage of air passed through the filters filter below 140 bar (a figure that was mentioned in this video) is much higher on a gun top up than a bottle top up, especially since most gun top ups will be from 100 bar or less and I tend to top up my bottles at around 200 bar.

I don't think the cotton filters can remove water vapour, only droplets so the higher the pressure the more water vapour is squeezed out as droplets and caught by the cotton before reaching the sieve.

As I'm sure I've said before, I have been filling bottles and guns for some time now and have never seen any sign of corrosion in my guns and @Scoie and I have had at least 2 bottles that I have been filling tested and both passed without comment.

I'm fairly sure this is all above and beyond actual needs but as you know Bill I like messing about with things and don't do theory well, I need to see it in practice.

I don't think it's going to help for guns or small bottles where you don't need a cooling break. Or am I missing something?

As long as there is bleed valve either side of the one way valve I think the benefit is that all compressor output is at least initial bottle pressure before leaving the the first cotton filter, and that means (in my rabbit hole anyway ) that more water vapour is squeezed out as droplets into the cotton filter and my first test appears to support that.

Isn't the one way valve used like this doing the same job as a PMV?

 

[Joolsroper]

Interesting setup & a bit to advanced for my skills! By coincidence I saw an email from Best Fittings yesterday for the Hills Dry Pack Pro and 4 cardon pack refills £150. Anyone using this? I do notice the Hills pump does produce a fair amount of moisture and when I have needed to bleed out my Leshiy 2 for adjustments its immeditaley evident how much moisture is in the gun. Think Im going to push the button on purchase. Have to the renew filters every 3 months so £28 a year to run this.

EC-3000 Hill Compressor Dry-Pac Pro – Air Dryer Filter – Best Fittings

www.bestfittings.co.uk

 

[John Pembroke]

Can the Hill Dry-Pac be stripped and refilled with better contents (not activated carbon)?

 

[sagalout]

Can the Hill Dry-Pac be stripped and refilled with better contents (not activated carbon)?

Don't think it uses activated carbon except s some gauze filters like kitchen hoods use. It is serviceable so you can fll it with what ever you like.

 

[ReSyC]

I only ever fill a 1.1L weekender and the odd gun directly with mine so I don't think I need one, but for larger cylinder fills that's a brilliant idea

During the cool-down stages, the compressor can be left to cool with the water separator purged leaving the filtration chain pressurised so when it kicks back in, it does so from ambient pressure instead of under load and only has to repressurise everything before the one-way valve instead of wasting a minute of runtime on the filters.

I might pick one up and drop it in the chain anyway, I like gadgets and gizmos so it would be handy to have in the bits box

I've got a quick detach connector fitted on top of the water separator on mine that I connect the filters and whips to, so I could place it there easily.

 

[John Pembroke]

Don't think it uses activated carbon except s some gauze filters like kitchen hoods use. It is serviceable so you can fll it with what ever you like.

Sounds like a good option as it is serviceable

 

[sagalout]

I've got a quick detach connector fitted on top of the water separator on mine that I connect the filters and whips to, so I could place it there easily.

I have the same but decided to put a cotton filter between the separater and the one way valve so I could swap out the cotton for a dry one during the cool down cycle. I initiate my cool down cycle at 55C, 60C or 65C manually. The different temperature for starting the cooling cycle are based on pressure, cool it earlier for higher pressures like the latest firmware does. I leave mine cooling for 15 or 30 minutes to get the temperature right down before restarting.

I manually pause by pressing the selection button, it then stops and offers ABORT, press again to abort or turn anti clockwise to be offered RESUME.

 

[BallisticBill]

Isn't the one way valve used like this doing the same job as a PMV

If you are manually letting air into the molecular sieve only after pressurising the pump and cotton filters to 200bar it's doing exactly the same job as the PMV set at 200bar.

 

[eds81]

Great write up, just a question why not just use dry pack pro? Seems easier or do you like a tinker etc. Not knocking what you've done just interested.

 

[sagalout]

If you are manually letting air into the molecular sieve only after pressurising the pump and cotton filters to 200bar it's doing exactly the same job as the PMV set at 200bar.

I assume you meant the other way round as the actress said to the bishop. I have the one way valve set to open only when compressor pressure exceeds bottle pressure, i.e I open the bottle before starting the compressor.

 

[sagalout]

why not just use dry pack pro? Seems easier or do you like a tinker etc.

The dry pac pro is a new product and all my kit precedes it by a number of years.

 

[BallisticBill]

I saw an email from Best Fittings yesterday for the Hills Dry Pack Pro and 4 cardon pack refills £150. Anyone using this? ...Think Im going to push the button on purchase. Have to the renew filters every 3 months so £28 a year to run this.

The Hills setup seems an expensive way of doing essentially the same as a small cotton filter and 170mm molecular sieve costing a fraction of the price.

The check valves and one-way valves are an overkill. I thought the only reason for a one-way valve was to allow restart of the compressor at low load when it was necessary to stop during a fill to allow the compressor to cool... so only relevant for large bottles. For direct filling of guns and small bottles I don’t have either. Ive done some dew point calculations and I'm happy with my setup.

 

[John Pembroke]

My "over the top" input filtration system is still not showing any colour change to the silica even after 4 months (about 10 hours). Mind you, the air has to go through a large tampon filter first followed by 3A sieve before it reaches the silica.

 

[BallisticBill]

I assume you meant the other way round as the actress said to the bishop. I have the one way valve set to open only when compressor pressure exceeds bottle pressure, i.e I open the bottle before starting the compressor.

It's clearly too early in the morning and I haven't woken up yet.
My point is, once you've depressurised the molecular sieve you have to fill it again with low pressure air. Ideally you need to get the pump and cotton filter up to 200bar before letting air into the molecular sieve, which is the function of the PMV. If you are doing that manually, the control of moisture content is the same as the PMV.

 

[Tony.T]

I use one of these for filling bottles from my Hill compressor-

BEST Fittings One Way Valve Quick Coupler Compressor Connector Male-Female – Best Fittings

www.bestfittings.co.uk

I also use a Dri-Pac pro and not had any problems. The compressor has run for 1.1hrs now, ss I'm going to change the oil very soon. Not sure when I need to replace filters- any ideas? Had it for about 10 weeks.