Could anyone explain to me the difference between mrad and MIL dot reticles and there usage. I realise MIL dot is great for hold over and windage but cannot see a difference with mrad reticle. I realise mil dot is metric and mrad is imperial but thats it. Many thanks in advance.
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Mrad and mil dot
- Thread starter m7bfz
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I‘m assuming you mean MoA and MRAD as Mil-dot is MRAD. As he explains, MRAD isn’t metric, but is base 10.
So MRAD or MoA will work as metric or Imperial. You just have to shoot in yards range (say 50 yards) and measure group size in inches (half inch, therefore giving you a 1 MoA group) ….. or shoot in metres range and measure in millimetres groupsize with either system. The important bit is to have a matching ret and turrets.
So MRAD or MoA will work as metric or Imperial. You just have to shoot in yards range (say 50 yards) and measure group size in inches (half inch, therefore giving you a 1 MoA group) ….. or shoot in metres range and measure in millimetres groupsize with either system. The important bit is to have a matching ret and turrets.
The Burpster
Super member
^ this.
But to expand on your use of terms, Mils or MILRAD are shortened from the word Miliradians which is the measuring system Nords is alluding to.
So to clarify your question MIL and MILRAD are the same thing.(a system of dividing a circle in units of ten)
MOA or Minutes of Angle is the system based on using 360* as its basis, a minute is 1/60 of a degree, a second is 1/60 of a Minute.
But to expand on your use of terms, Mils or MILRAD are shortened from the word Miliradians which is the measuring system Nords is alluding to.
So to clarify your question MIL and MILRAD are the same thing.(a system of dividing a circle in units of ten)
MOA or Minutes of Angle is the system based on using 360* as its basis, a minute is 1/60 of a degree, a second is 1/60 of a Minute.
Captain_Slackbladder
Super member
It’s an area of maths at school that I said “what’s the point of all this trigonometry ********?” probably should have concentrated a bit harder… you never know when you might need it 
Thanks for that. I've just bought my first MRAD scope and thought it was 1 click = 1cm @ 100metres.
As they say, every day is a learning day.
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mealiejimmie
Now Deceased
mils and mrad are the same thing
They are both shortened versions of the word milliradians
A milli radian is 1/1000 of a radian which is one way of describing an angle and the are 2 pi radians in a circle
The other (and much more common) way to describe angles is in degrees. and there are 360 degrees in a circle
1/60 of one degree is known as a minute of angle and commonly shortened to moa
So 1mil /mrad = 3.43 moa
Cheers
Bruce
Ballist
Super member
As above stated: 1 mil is 3.44 moa. That is a little strange ratio because the mil is metric basic where the moa is more imperial...
More strange is that scope manufacturers still make scopes with mildot reticles and moa turrets. They are very common, but in fact it is a shit design.
With 4 clicks in in moa, you need 3.44 times that to reach the next mildot.
When buying a scope, for me it is important that reticle en turrets are the same type...
More strange is that scope manufacturers still make scopes with mildot reticles and moa turrets. They are very common, but in fact it is a shit design.
With 4 clicks in in moa, you need 3.44 times that to reach the next mildot.
When buying a scope, for me it is important that reticle en turrets are the same type...
mealiejimmie
Now Deceased
Angles are neither metric or imperial
Describing mils/mrad as metric only comes from the fact that the angle (radian) is divided by one thousand, whereas as in the moa system, the angle (degree) is divided by 60
However, I agree that when those angles are converted into heights at a given range, the mil/mrad method does work better when used with metric units of distance and the moa method works better with imperial units of distance
If you work in mil/mrad, then 0.1 mil/mrad is one centimetre at 100m
If you work in moa, then 1 moa is very, very close to one inch at 100 yards
Cheers
Bruce
Describing mils/mrad as metric only comes from the fact that the angle (radian) is divided by one thousand, whereas as in the moa system, the angle (degree) is divided by 60
However, I agree that when those angles are converted into heights at a given range, the mil/mrad method does work better when used with metric units of distance and the moa method works better with imperial units of distance
If you work in mil/mrad, then 0.1 mil/mrad is one centimetre at 100m
If you work in moa, then 1 moa is very, very close to one inch at 100 yards
Cheers
Bruce
The Burpster
Super member
I so get this…. It was like that with Geography, absolutely @@@king hated it at school but I so wish I hadnt to55ed it off when I started flying as so much of it wouldve been useful and I had to learn it anyway.It’s an area of maths at school that I said “what’s the point of all this trigonometry ********?” probably should have concentrated a bit harder… you never know when you might need it
Fortunately maths/physics I could in my sleep so breezed those
JoeHeugh
Super member
Assuming you mean MOA vs mrad/mil there is quite a big difference but normal folk like us don't take any advantage of it. Radians and milliradians are actually a measure of distance (see here) and have been used by militaries for years to work out artillery ranges etc and are part of their language.
Early telescopic sights were simple wire and post affairs superseded in the civilian world by MOA based designs so for example while the Leupold duplex doesn't use MOA graduations the distance between wire and post and post thickness are all measured in MOA. Of course we do have fully graduated MOA scopes now and it was natural that the 1/4 MOA click became the standard.
However MOA didn't suit the military, if snipers only shot people it probably wouldn't make much difference but snipers also spend a lot of time watching people and making notes on what they see. It made sense to use mildots for their reticles so they could take accurate measurements and then transmit them back in the common tongue, hence the mildot reticle was born in the USA and adopted in the UK around 1988. We were aware of the adjustment click issue when using the new dots so the new Scmidt and Bender L17A1 scope for the Accuracy International Arctic Warfare rifle used 1/10 MOA clicks as do all military scopes now.
Of course with the Mil(itary) Dot scopes "tactical" credentials the manufacturers were happy to sell them to us and we were happy to buy them for their numerous aim points in a standardised format. They were less happy to match the adjustment clicks and as we were not doing so much long range shooting back then we didn't really notice, but it is becoming more of an issue now. I prefer MOA but simply because I think in inches, people with my impediment will soon die out so I guess mildots really are the way forward but only with the correct adjustments. But for pity's sake, not on compasses please...
I think it is a typo Joe, but a measure of angle not distance.
JoeHeugh
Super member
You're right of course, it was lazy and a bit confusing. Here is how the article in the link puts it:
"In maths Radians and Mils are described as angles.
But from a navigation viewpoint there is a fundamental difference between Degrees and Mils and it is this: On a compass Degrees are angles and Mils are distances."
Thank you very much sir
Thank you sir
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Thank you that helps a lot
Thank you very much