How do we encourage new people into the sport ?

[urbanxi]

As a self-confessed card-carrying woke type (and also a keen shooter), I honestly think that has little to do with it. Unfortunately shooting is just not that popular, especially compared to fishing. People know what they're getting from a fishing show, and something based around shooting is just too out there for a lot of people.

I'd also gently suggest to the shooting community that if we want to welcome new folk into the sport, especially younger people, it would be nice to make an effort to show that we're keen to welcome everyone, regardless of gender, social class, political viewpoints etc. A lot of my mates think shooting is a bit of an old boys' club (and looking at the demographic at most ranges I go to, it sort of is) and it would be good if we as a shooting community made an effort to change that.

Such an honest post.

To me it's mad how differently how the public view someone with a rod on their back, or a gunslip in the UK, but that's not going to change overnight.

If only this forum was the complete image of the community, we'd be laughing.

 

[Rikard]

As someone returning to the hobbie after a very long lay off i'm some what dissapointed in any progress for this pastime.
There are many good points and suggestions made already but it does seem to be a literal postcode lottery.
I've searched for facilites in my area, spent 15 mins chasing defunct FB links only to find the place had closed down, fair enough, take your chuffin website down then.

Also dissapointed at STB site, it used to be the font of all knowledge for club events all over the u.k, now you HAVE to log in to read any of it, that'll put alot of folk off, including me.
I have found several places in my area, varies between £10-15 for 3 hrs, age limits are 10+,never seen any kids there, the majority are 50+
who sit in the same spaces ,never speak, abit like a village pub, the ranges are ok but not enough reactive stuff to keep kids busy for a few hrs.

You find a empty spot and end up chatting to whoever pegs up next to you, assuming they want to chat, it's all a bit too clinical, no social interacting. it''ll turn people away.
Absolutely no doubt it is a tough business model to get right but if we don't get more youths interested sooner rather than later ranges will be full of old men effin & jeffin to there hearts content.
Until there is no one.

Unfortunately you are not exactly redeeming yourself, can’t be bother to log in for information on the STB, it’s only takes a few minutes and when you do, you have access to the info you want, yet happy to log on here and complain
Most people that shoot don’t want to chat on the firing line, there is usually a break out area for that
I personally am more than happy to chat when I’ve finished shooting
Well behaved children are more than welcome at our club but the emphasis has to be on safety and behaviour

 

[Dioclese]

As someone returning to the hobbie after a very long lay off i'm some what dissapointed in any progress for this pastime.
There are many good points and suggestions made already but it does seem to be a literal postcode lottery.
I've searched for facilites in my area, spent 15 mins chasing defunct FB links only to find the place had closed down, fair enough, take your chuffin website down then.

Also dissapointed at STB site, it used to be the font of all knowledge for club events all over the u.k, now you HAVE to log in to read any of it, that'll put alot of folk off, including me.
I have found several places in my area, varies between £10-15 for 3 hrs, age limits are 10+,never seen any kids there, the majority are 50+
who sit in the same spaces ,never speak, abit like a village pub, the ranges are ok but not enough reactive stuff to keep kids busy for a few hrs.

You find a empty spot and end up chatting to whoever pegs up next to you, assuming they want to chat, it's all a bit too clinical, no social interacting. it''ll turn people away.
Absolutely no doubt it is a tough business model to get right but if we don't get more youths interested sooner rather than later ranges will be full of old men effin & jeffin to there hearts content.
Until there is no one.

A spark that lights the flame.

Back in the 80's, a letter would go out in the readers reply section of the Airgun magazines, or sometimes an editorial mention-X is looking for like-minded shooters to form a new club in X location.

When Terry Le Cheminant put up such a request, it became Guildford Field Target Club, then grew into the B.F.T.O now at the home of British shooting, Bisley.

Jay-if you build it, they will come. We need to be active, to grow the sport. Go into your local gunshop and speak to the staff, put a poster up. Even better, use this incredible resource-the AGF is the best facility we have ever had.

UKAHFT started as a few lads camping and shooting targets with .22 Rapids. FT started behind a pub.

There appear's to be a lot of members on here from Lincolnshire

 

[Mr Fettler]

how many members generally stay behind to tidy up, put out targets, do the ongoing maintenance etc etc?

Our range is privately owned but they want the members input.
Last week was our AGM
Out of 285 members
I was the only one to attend apart from staff !

 

[Dioclese]

Our range is privately owned but they want the members input.
Last week was our AGM
Out of 285 members
I was the only one to attend apart from staff !

Ford?

 

[Rikard]

Our range is privately owned but they want the members input.
Last week was our AGM
Out of 285 members
I was the only one to attend apart from staff !

That’s the same at most clubs, with member owned clubs people forget someone has to do the work and just want to turn up, shoot then go home

 

[Rudolph Hucker]

I was sent this by my sister and it certainly explains why the 1960’s generation are like they are, it’s a long read but worth it if you have the time

Psychology explains people who grew up in the 1960s aren't just tougher — they developed a specific kind of resilience that comes from being raised in an era when emotional comfort wasn't considered a basic right - Silicon Canals

In 1966, a developmental psychologist named Diana Baumrind published a study that would change how we think about parenting. Working out of the University of

siliconcanals.com

That's an interesting read - my Dad was a 60s kid and, parts of that do resonate for me

 

[Jimmer7]

Friendly club ranges with helpful members as well as trustworthy retailers

 

[David1]

Yes, the atmosphere at many shooting events is very laddish / macho etc.

Mainly old white blokes, often F-ing and Blinding away in virtually every comment

Personal point of view?
Does not bother me but it is not welcoming to anybody less thick skinned.
Everyone at my Club was respectful towards my grand daughter - but the usual atmosphere is very different!

The photo of the young woman in a bikini at the start of the thread is meant in a light-hearted way of course - but it would be seen as not at all funny or appropriate by many people who are not as "blokey" so the question is
"Do we want to welcome more diverse people into our sport?
If so what are we going to change to make it happen?"

Why did you feel the need to state “mainly old white blokes”?, at the end of the day with out these ‘mainly old white blokes’ most of the ranges, gun shops etc would go under, they’d have no custom, your point is coming across as a stigma to probably 90% who are into the sport, let’s face it, shooting is a niche for a certain gender and age, yes it’s great when young people or other genders partake, but at the end of the day most of the younger generation would find it an expensive hobby to start off with and their interests probably lie elsewhere anyway, how many posts start with, I’m returning after 30yrs away, as for the ‘blokey’ comment regarding the picture what does that even mean? Is your point in question only cavemen or the like find things of that nature funny, let’s be honest there’s more important things going on in the world than people getting offended by a picture of a semi clad woman and tbh most of the blokes on here are to old to appreciate it anyway now, what with most of them being ‘mainly old white blokes’. I’m finding a lot of the posts regarding the subject as a little disloyal to the stalwarts who’ve kept the hobby going for all these years.

 

[chouchin66]

If I may present an idea...
Do you folks have what we here in the States term " public television" -- by this I mean independently run local stations that run on private/ corporate/ philanthropic donations to cover operating costs ? PBS ( Public Broadcasting) stations in local markets here are " sponsored" by both private finance through various private foundations & trust funds + a stipend from govt. allocations.
My point is, if these type entities exist, a few Public Service Announcements/ short commercials ( with club help toward costs) to advertise the shooting sports, & a possibly a bit of "philanthropic solicitation" from both BASC, & local landowners for venues to have shoot days on private land - "a day in the country" type of thing ... May work at getting the word out ?

 

[Mrs. H]

Why did you feel the need to state “mainly old white blokes”?, at the end of the day with out these ‘mainly old white blokes’ most of the ranges, gun shops etc would go under, they’d have no custom, your point is coming across as a stigma to probably 90% who are into the sport, let’s face it, shooting is a niche for a certain gender and age, yes it’s great when young people or other genders partake, but at the end of the day most of the younger generation would find it an expensive hobby to start off with and their interests probably lie elsewhere anyway, how many posts start with, I’m returning after 30yrs away, as for the ‘blokey’ comment regarding the picture what does that even mean? Is your point in question only cavemen or the like find things of that nature funny, let’s be honest there’s more important things going on in the world than people getting offended by a picture of a semi clad woman and tbh most of the blokes on here are to old to appreciate it anyway now, what with most of them being ‘mainly old white blokes’. I’m finding a lot of the post regarding the subject as a little disloyal to the stalwarts who’ve kept the hobby going for all these years.

This is a tough one, to be fair @Dioclese actually said "Mainly old white blokes, often F-ing and Blinding away in virtually every comment"

Which is exactly my experience at many, many clubs. Some members, if 4-letter words were banned, would be mute.
Not to mention the constant exchanges of expletive ridden rants about immigrants, gays, Police, ethnic groups, their wives and what they 'would like to do to that bird off the telly'.

Many of these types fom a significant membership of the clubs, and frankly thats the problem being discussed. It can be over niche, you're not going to get families, youngsters and fresh new blood into the sport if thats how its being presented to them. Some aspects of our sport really do need to change or it'll just die out with them.

 

[OldStock]

Why did you feel the need to state “mainly old white blokes”?, at the end of the day with out these ‘mainly old white blokes’ most of the ranges, gun shops etc would go under, they’d have no custom, your point is coming across as a stigma to probably 90% who are into the sport, let’s face it, shooting is a niche for a certain gender and age, yes it’s great when young people or other genders partake, but at the end of the day most of the younger generation would find it an expensive hobby to start off with and their interests probably lie elsewhere anyway, how many posts start with, I’m returning after 30yrs away, as for the ‘blokey’ comment regarding the picture what does that even mean? Is your point in question only cavemen or the like find things of that nature funny, let’s be honest there’s more important things going on in the world than people getting offended by a picture of a semi clad woman and tbh most of the blokes on here are to old to appreciate it anyway now, what with most of them being ‘mainly old white blokes’. I’m finding a lot of the post regarding the subject as a little disloyal to the stalwarts who’ve kept the hobby going for all these years.

Also not everything needs to be for everyone.
There is no need to have an inclusive bowls club, with furry facilities, a knitting circle with seats sutable for extreme body builders.
The sport needs new blood, but straight white males are not a curse (despite the BBC's poisonous take).
Part of the decline is the society running down traditional values and interests.
A lad might know how to skin a rabbit, as a basic life skill, or to drive a tractor.
I'm all for equality of opportunity, let anyone have a go, and assist everyone without favour, but don't run down those who built the society, or this sport, as less than those who come later.

 

[David1]

This is a tough one, to be fair @Diocese actually said "Mainly old white blokes, often F-ing and Blinding away in virtually every comment"

Which is exactly my experience at many, many clubs. Some members, if 4-letter words were banned, would be mute.
Not to mention the constant exchanges of expletive ridden rants about immigrants, gays, Police, ethnic groups, their wives and what they 'would like to do to that bird off the telly'.

Many of these types fom a significant membership of the clubs, and frankly thats the problem being discussed. It can be over niche, you're not going to get families, youngsters and fresh new blood into the sport if thats how its being presented to them. Some aspects of our sport really do need to change or it'll just die out with them.

If I was you complain to the officials or whomever runs the club, that’s certainly not been my experience at any clubs I’ve been to or even any walk of life, yes you have the odd bigot or racist you bump into occasionally but you leave them to their own ignorance but if as you’ve stated, ‘constant exchanges’ then that needs reporting as it must make you feel uncomfortable.

 

[twigulus]

Also not everything needs to be for everyone.
There is no need to have an inclusive bowls club, with furry facilities, a knitting circle with seats sutable for extreme body builders.
The sport needs new blood, but straight white males are not a curse (despite the BBC's poisonous take).
Part of the decline is the society running down traditional values and interests.
A lad might know how to skin a rabbit, as a basic life skill, or to drive a tractor.
I'm all for equality of opportunity, let anyone have a go, and assist everyone without favour, but don't run down those who built the society, or this sport, as less than those who come later.

Of course we shouldn't set out to exclude the sport's traditional base (mostly men, mostly white). But I'd guess this group makes up around 80% of shooters, and only around 37% of the population will be straight white blokes. So just from a practical point of view, it's worth asking some questions:
1) are we - accidentally or otherwise - excluding people from shooting? If not, why do so few folk from other groups want to join in?
2) can our sport survive unless we make a concerted effort to get other groups involved?

There is a lot of talk in this thread about how much of society is hostile to shooting sports. I agree this is the case. But I think instead of getting cross at wokery etc (btw, not accusing anyone here of having this attitude specifically) we could be positive ambassadors for shooting and educate people on how fun and useful it is.

 

[jukibom]

Why did you feel the need to state “mainly old white blokes”?, at the end of the day with out these ‘mainly old white blokes’ most of the ranges, gun shops etc would go under, they’d have no custom, your point is coming across as a stigma to probably 90% who are into the sport, let’s face it, shooting is a niche for a certain gender and age, yes it’s great when young people or other genders partake, but at the end of the day most of the younger generation would find it an expensive hobby to start off with and their interests probably lie elsewhere anyway, how many posts start with, I’m returning after 30yrs away, as for the ‘blokey’ comment regarding the picture what does that even mean? Is your point in question only cavemen or the like find things of that nature funny, let’s be honest there’s more important things going on in the world than people getting offended by a picture of a semi clad woman and tbh most of the blokes on here are to old to appreciate it anyway now, what with most of them being ‘mainly old white blokes’. I’m finding a lot of the posts regarding the subject as a little disloyal to the stalwarts who’ve kept the hobby going for all these years.

Honestly I think you're trying to make something of nothing there... nobody is saying "old white men are a problem", just that the perception of an 'old boys club' isn't doing the sport any favours and if the sport is to survive at all then everyone needs to be a new kind of stalwart as an ambassador to the sport

at the end of the day most of the younger generation would find it an expensive hobby to start off with and their interests probably lie elsewhere anyway

On this bit in particular: I'm not sure that's true, like most hobbies you can go crazy with it but compared to most it's actually kinda great? Like, a cheap second-hander can get you really far! I learned a lot with a second-hand gamo before I decided I enjoyed it enough to invest more. And now I lend that out to others to take to the range because why not - don't even try to tell me people on here don't have spare gear because I've seen all your gun cabinet posts!

But yeah I think that's an important part of the messaging honestly: it's a reasonably cheap way to get out and have fun

Also not everything needs to be for everyone.
There is no need to have an inclusive bowls club, with furry facilities, a knitting circle with seats sutable for extreme body builders.
The sport needs new blood, but straight white males are not a curse (despite the BBC's poisonous take).
Part of the decline is the society running down traditional values and interests.
A lad might know how to skin a rabbit, as a basic life skill, or to drive a tractor.
I'm all for equality of opportunity, let anyone have a go, and assist everyone without favour, but don't run down those who built the society, or this sport, as less than those who come later.

I'm honestly not entirely sure what you're trying to say here, these are all weird strawmen arguments in a thread about getting more people into the sport - that does include white men too, obviously?

 

[David1]

Of course we shouldn't set out to exclude the sport's traditional base (mostly men, mostly white). But I'd guess this group makes up around 80% of shooters, and only around 37% of the population will be straight white blokes. So just from a practical point of view, it's worth asking some questions:
1) are we - accidentally or otherwise - excluding people from shooting? If not, why do so few folk from other groups want to join in?
2) can our sport survive unless we make a concerted effort to get other groups involved?

There is a lot of talk in this thread about how much of society is hostile to shooting sports. I agree this is the case. But I think instead of getting cross at wokery etc (btw, not accusing anyone here of having this attitude specifically) we could be positive ambassadors for shooting and educate people on how fun and useful it is.

Please explain 1) if you could, let’s be honest 99% of people probally find air rifles and the like as boring, you say to someone at the weekend I shot holes in a paper target from 30yds away or I was shooting rats or squirrels, they’d think you were mad, it’s a dying sport tbh, it’s just not in the mainstream enough, if it wasn’t for the older generation it’d go obsolete and in time it probally will.

 

[Byronic]

Why did you feel the need to state “mainly old white blokes”?, at the end of the day with out these ‘mainly old white blokes’ most of the ranges, gun shops etc would go under, they’d have no custom, your point is coming across as a stigma to probably 90% who are into the sport, let’s face it, shooting is a niche for a certain gender and age, yes it’s great when young people or other genders partake, but at the end of the day most of the younger generation would find it an expensive hobby to start off with and their interests probably lie elsewhere anyway, how many posts start with, I’m returning after 30yrs away, as for the ‘blokey’ comment regarding the picture what does that even mean? Is your point in question only cavemen or the like find things of that nature funny, let’s be honest there’s more important things going on in the world than people getting offended by a picture of a semi clad woman and tbh most of the blokes on here are to old to appreciate it anyway now, what with most of them being ‘mainly old white blokes’. I’m finding a lot of the posts regarding the subject as a little disloyal to the stalwarts who’ve kept the hobby going for all these years.

I have no issue at all with the "old white bloke" demographic group - it includes me and most of my friends!
(Mid 70s age, white as a sheet - I have even posted my DNA results on AGF if you want to check; pedigree British mongrel.)

You missed out the bit about profane and / or offensive language - which is likely to make some potential "new people" feel uncomfortable.

Given that the title of this thread is
"How do we encourage new people into the sport ?"
then maybe it is relevant to ask who these "new people" might be - is it not?

Old blokes seem to be dying a breed - at least those of us old enough to who think that shooting is a normal, reasonable hobby.
So which "new people" are we trying to attract?

The ethnic dimension is relevant - from my own experience and confirmed by others e.g. @Mrs. H above
Quote
"Which is exactly my experience at many, many clubs. Some members, if 4-letter words were banned, would be mute.
Not to mention the constant exchanges of expletive ridden rants about immigrants, gays, Police, ethnic groups, their wives and what they 'would like to do to that bird off the telly'."

So - using that quote as an example - anybody who is "immigrant" (usually equates to non- white and often expressed in more lurid terms like "N*gger" or "P*k*" etc) and gay people are not going to feel really welcome, are they?
Many younger people are likely to feel uncomfortable with the sexist attitudes mentioned, as well.

Are we trying to attract only old, straight, white blokes?

There is not and never has been any disloyalty from me to the "stalwarts" who run my Club or anywhere else that I might shoot - as a look back through my previous posts will demonstrate.

You are the one who seems to equate "blokey" with "cavemen" as I certainly did not - do I detect a bit of a "Straw Man" argument there?

"there’s more important things going on in the world than people getting offended"
Absolutely right!
If we want to "encourage new people into the sport" then how do we do that?
Not by dancing around people who get offended by somebody (like me) pointing out some of the things which are likely to deter many "new people" from getting involved!

Once again, I agree with @Mrs. H
"Many of these types fom a significant membership of the clubs, and frankly thats the problem being discussed. It can be over niche, you're not going to get families, youngsters and fresh new blood into the sport if thats how its being presented to them. Some aspects of our sport really do need to change or it'll just die out with them."

Q.E.D.

 

[Mad Andy]

Any youngsters beginning the sport are going to get some fantastic second hand bargains in about 20 years when we're all pushing up daisies.

 

[David1]

Honestly I think you're trying to make something of nothing there... nobody is saying "old white men are a problem", just that the perception of an 'old boys club' isn't doing the sport any favours and if the sport is to survive at all then everyone needs to be a new kind of stalwart as an ambassador to the sport


On this bit in particular: I'm not sure that's true, like most hobbies you can go crazy with it but compared to most it's actually kinda great? Like, a cheap second-hander can get you really far! I learned a lot with a second-hand gamo before I decided I enjoyed it enough to invest more. And now I lend that out to others to take to the range because why not - don't even try to tell me people on here don't have spare gear because I've seen all your gun cabinet posts!

But yeah I think that's an important part of the messaging honestly: it's a reasonably cheap way to get out and have fun


I'm honestly not entirely sure what you're trying to say here, these are all weird strawmen arguments in a thread about getting more people into the sport - that does include white men too, obviously?

Honestly I’m not making something out of nothing, because I couldn’t careless, I just found it insulting why the op had to state old and white together as though it’s some kind of punishment to be such, as for your second part why did you trade up from the gamo? And what did you trade up to and at what cost? if you don’t mind me asking?

I have no issue at all with the "old white bloke" demographic group - it includes me and most of my friends!
(Mid 70s age, white as a sheet - I have even posted my DNA results on AGF if you want to check; pedigree British mongrel.)

You missed out the bit about profane and / or offensive language - which is likely to make some potential "new people" feel uncomfortable.

Given that the title of this thread is
"How do we encourage new people into the sport ?"
then maybe it is relevant to ask who these "new people" might be - is it not?

Old blokes seem to be dying a breed - at least those of us old enough to who think that shooting is a normal, reasonable hobby.
So which "new people" are we trying to attract?

The ethnic dimension is relevant - from my own experience and confirmed by others e.g. @Mrs. H above
Quote
"Which is exactly my experience at many, many clubs. Some members, if 4-letter words were banned, would be mute.
Not to mention the constant exchanges of expletive ridden rants about immigrants, gays, Police, ethnic groups, their wives and what they 'would like to do to that bird off the telly'."

So - using that quote as an example - anybody who is "immigrant" (usually equates to non- white and often expressed in more lurid terms like "N*gger" or "P*k*" etc) and gay people are not going to feel really welcome, are they?
Many younger people are likely to feel uncomfortable with the sexist attitudes mentioned, as well.

Are we trying to attract only old, straight, white blokes?

There is not and never has been any disloyalty from me to the "stalwarts" who run my Club or anywhere else that I might shoot - as a look back through my previous posts will demonstrate.

You are the one who seems to equate "blokey" with "cavemen" as I certainly did not - do I detect a bit of a "Straw Man" argument there?

"there’s more important things going on in the world than people getting offended"
Absolutely right!
If we want to "encourage new people into the sport" then how do we do that?
Not by dancing around people who get offended by somebody (like me) pointing out some of the things which are likely to deter many "new people" from getting involved!

Once again, I agree with @Mrs. H
"Many of these types fom a significant membership of the clubs, and frankly thats the problem being discussed. It can be over niche, you're not going to get families, youngsters and fresh new blood into the sport if thats how its being presented to them. Some aspects of our sport really do need to change or it'll just die out with them."

Q.E.D.

please explain to me what you meant by “blokey”

 

[Mrs. H]

If I was you complain to the officials or whomever runs the club, that’s certainly not been my experience at any clubs I’ve been to or even any walk of life, yes you have the odd bigot or racist you bump into occasionally but you leave them to their own ignorance but if as you’ve stated, ‘constant exchanges’ then that needs reporting as it must make you feel uncomfortable.

In some instances the comments have come from club officials.
I'm not seeking to be contentious here, I'm just trying to share an honest viewpoint from some 20 odd years of shooting. I doubt many of the people in question even realise they could be construed as offensive, this is just their normal level of conversation. I would say though that I've certainly been privy to overheard comments and actions I'd never expect to encounter in a place of work. I've had men turn around and pee in a bush barely 3ft away whilst shooting a course or constantly rearrange the contents of their trousers whilst talking to me. Do I feel uncomfortable? Sometimes yes. I've just come to accept alot of it and try to mitigate things by socialising with the same people at shoots and actively avoiding a few. I'm pleased to say it is just 'a few', but their presence is none the less noted.