Great news on shotgun licence

Jester said:
There's already the mechanism in law to refuse a S2 applicant on the belief they don't have a good reason to apply, which is subtly different from having to provide a good reason for FAC.

The issue with this is the latter is well defined and the former isn't. It wouldn't be particularly onerous to add a few lines in section 2 of the act to require some attendance of a clay club for safety training, a minimal attendance number and so on, or an equivalent set of basic reqs for field use.

The real problem of course is none of this has anything to do with the "public safety" question around undesirables, or at least what Gov appears to want to achieve with the merge. They've been largely unable to explain how this'll help or what they're trying to solve, so it really is a solution looking for a problem which we can all agree is a terrible way to implement law.

It appears that someone's told them FAC is "harder" to get than SGC and they've heard "safer", ergo a merge must be the the solution, but it isn't as the suitability factors are the same. This all came out in the recent debate.

As suggested by attendees and everyone else this plan should be binned and effective changes that will make the licencing regime safer and more efficient for everyone should be considered.
Listening to industry insiders who have specialist knowledge seems to be a massive taboo for some people, apparently on the assumption that everyone will ALWAYS apply a protectionist racket approach.

Gov is thick as mince.
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If you listen to the Shooting Times video it is obvious Labour wants to bring in some kind of restrictions even if they do not merge t
S1 & S2.
 
Rich79 said:
The way I see it over here, sec1 shooting is very controlled, not just with licensing but the very act of doing it.
At Bisley which is one of the biggest UK ranges its very much "lay here, load only when ready, only point it that way, don't elevelate the barrel beyond x, range officer checks you're clear when finnished".
When I got back into sec2 shotguns from spending 20 odd years under the above it was a world of difference, it almost seems uncontrolled at a lot of clay shooting grounds.
The amount of times I've seen people sweeping others and me with their barrels (albeit broken) it's still not great, it was only a year ago I was at a clay ground and a guy nearly lost his foot when a non licence holder moved back with a loaded gun and pulled the trigger!
It feels a bit wrong badmouthing the shooting community considering I'm in it but certain disciplines here have gone on for far too long with no effective training or scrutiny.
And yes I'm talking about shotguns.
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I have seen similar things.
Anyone who swings a gun carelessly will be told by me and others. Which is what should happen.
We all know a newcomer should be very closely supervised and only have one cartridge at a time in the gun while still learning.
Gun safety is paramount and should be second nature.
 
Enfield2band said:
That was suggested here.
Thankfully it was dropped. We can police our own sport and have done for decades.
Once a quango has the ability to run a training course the cost will rocket and safety will go out of the window.
We need to pass a test to drive a car... the end result would be the same.
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But extra training and education must surely be a good thing with a type of firearm that is extra prone to accidents...?

Back in the day people were allowed to ride a motorbike on a car drivers licence too, that has changed and safety did improve due to this extra education and training, dispite being allowed to ride on a car licence "for decades"...
 
Enfield2band said:
I have seen similar things.
Anyone who swings a gun carelessly will be told by me and others. Which is what should happen.
We all know a newcomer should be very closely supervised and only have one cartridge at a time in the gun while still learning.
Gun safety is paramount and should be second nature.
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it sounds like I'm digging out sec2 shooters and I'm not, to me there is still an age group where you just got granted a licence with no training required and off you went.
You expect the odd lapse of concentration with a newb but its older guys as well.
 
Enfield2band said:
If you listen to the Shooting Times video it is obvious Labour wants to bring in some kind of restrictions even if they do not merge t
S1 & S2.
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That may be - and knowing those scumbags, probably the case - but as has been seen so far in the process there will be a wide expectation for them to provide a reasonably well thought out argument as to why it's necessary to change primary legislation.

Their expected free ride isn't working out for them. Contrary to some beliefs they can't just change law without wide support.
 
JohnnySweden said:
But extra training and education must surely be a good thing with a type of firearm that is extra prone to accidents...?

Back in the day people were allowed to ride a motorbike on a car drivers licence too, that has changed and safety did improve due to this extra education and training, dispite being allowed to ride on a car licence "for decades"...
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I beg to differ.
I think the system we have works effectively and is proven by our safety record.
 
Enfield2band said:
Once a quango has the ability to run a training course the cost will rocket and safety will go out of the window.
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We learned that with motorcycle training.

When I took my bike test, it was "Part 1", which you could either take with a training organisation (I used Star Rider, and it cost £47), or simply take the test at an HGV testing centre, then the regular road test "Part 2", and that was it.

Once they introduced Compulsory Basic Training (emphasis on the word COMPULSORY), the cost skyrocketed.
 
Dirty-Harry said:
We learned that with motorcycle training.

When I took my bike test, it was "Part 1", which you could either take with a training organisation (I used Star Rider, and it cost £47), or simply take the test at an HGV testing centre, then the regular road test "Part 2", and that was it.

Once they introduced Compulsory Basic Training (emphasis on the word COMPULSORY), the cost skyrocketed.
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That is the mechanisms of an unregulated free market and does not reflect on the values of increasing safety.

IMHO the CBT concept is odd, here you qualify for a motorbike drivers license or you won't ride anything beyond a bicycle.
 
Dirty-Harry said:
No it's not, because you have no choice but to pay a huge amount of money (on average at least£1,000), in order to obtain the licence.

No such requirement applies to learning to drive a car.
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With a proper regulation of the market the Government sets a cap on the cost, as here.

A drivers license is about £1000 here for 2 of the 4 basic categories (A & B) with £4000 for the other 2 (AM & BE).

A drivers license is however like a FAC - it's a one time cost, valid for life unless revoked by health issues or misuse.
 
JohnnySweden said:
A drivers license is about £1000 here for 2 of the 4 basic categories (A & B) with £4000 for the other 2 (AM & BE).
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Here in the UK, if you have a relative or friend willing to teach you, the journey to a car licence (licence and tests) can cost as little as £119.

In contrast, the journey to a motorcycle licence, costs around £1,000.

I'm starting to think that the government is intending to stop future generations from riding motorcycles.
 
Nothing to get excited about, it was 24 MPs out of 650 sitting….. pretty much all of them were either directly affiliated with a shooting / countryside organisation and / or had come under massive pressure from their constituents….

It’ll go to a consultation, irrespective of what that consultation says Labour will push it to a vote and we will loose that vote…. Literally only hope is it can be dragged out long enough to see a change of government and we get a Refom / Conservative / other right leaning parties win in 2030.
 
Jester said:
That may be - and knowing those scumbags, probably the case - but as has been seen so far in the process there will be a wide expectation for them to provide a reasonably well thought out argument as to why it's necessary to change primary legislation.

Their expected free ride isn't working out for them. Contrary to some beliefs they can't just change law without wide support.
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Unfortunately, it’s p***ing in the wind. The gov. (I refuse to call them Labour, they are no longer socialists) has around 400 out of 650 seats. The whip will ensure the vast majority vote for the gov. Even if it gets held up in the Lords, it will be enacted by the end of the year, start of 2027.

If I really loved shotguns, now would be the time to purchase a few. They’re dirt cheap because of the upcoming lead ban and this legislation, and very likely we’ll get grandfather rights on all the guns we currently own. Magically you’ll have a whole load of slots
 
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