F1 Spoiler, scroll past if you don't want to know!

[TD_boy]

Senna, Schumacher and Verstappen... All cast from the same mould.

 

[TonySTS]

@TD_boy

Driving genii but flawed moral compass

 

[TonySTS]

Deliberate driving into opponents certainly qualifies as dirty driver @Bill.B and therefore flawed morals even though they were driving greats.

 

[pjgtech]

Senna, Schumacher and Verstappen... All cast from the same mould.

Yeah, they are/were all flawed individuals. Great drivers, yes, but also flawed....
Senna literally thought he was immortal and could just drive people off the road, (eg: Prost).
I remember when Mansell put some manners on him and they had a greater respect after that.
Schumacher was just a plain cheat, on several occasions, Damen should have had at least one more championship if it was not for Schuey blatantly cheating, trying to drive into people, stopping at Monaco deliberately, etc.

And IMHO Vercrashen is a combination of the first two.
His early career was littered with crashes, because he would just drive into people, force hsi way past people, on track bullying, excessive aggression, etc. F1 quite literally had to keep changing and clarifying the rules because of him!

I can appreciate great driving, and they were all great, but I do not condone cheating or poor driving standards or plain bullying.

I get it that lots of peeps don't like Lewis, his lifestyle, the fashion, the bling, the music, etc, but whenever he is interviewed he is always humble, always thanx the team, the fans, etc and fesses up to mistakes or when he has under performed, etc etc,
And by pretty much any metric you care to name, (that matters) he has the stats to beat pretty much every other driver that has ever competed in F1, won most races, driven most fastest laps, lead most laps, accumulated most points, etc.

And he has done it without cheating and without making too many mistakes, or having too many crashes.
Just my opinion.

 

[pjgtech]

Why would Max be insufferable?

See post #24

 

[Bill.B]

I don't see Vettel, Senna, Schumacher, Hamilton and Max as flawed, I see them as hungry winners. Being kind and courteous on track doesn't make you a multiple world champion, ask his lordship Hamilton because he's done his fair share of 'elbows out' driving by forcing others off to get results. There are at least a couple of instances between him and Rosberg as I remember so he's no angel.

 

[AgentOrange76]

With Horner gone and no longer deflecting blame onto other competitors or blaming "harsh" stewarding, and normalising Max's aggression, I've started to see Max in a new light.

Still glad he didn't win this year though, and I'd be happy to see RBR's powertrain being a flop in 2026.

Great win for Lando!

I actual said to the Mrs that had Horner still been there he would tried to excuse Tsunoda's steering issue as all Lando's fault and a figment of everyones imagination. I dont see Mekies doing the same.

 

[pjgtech]

I don't see Vettel, Senna, Schumacher, Hamilton and Max as flawed, I see them as hungry winners. Being kind and courteous on track doesn't make you a multiple world champion, ask his lordship Hamilton because he's done his fair share of 'elbows out' driving by forcing others off to get results. There are at least a couple of instances between him and Rosberg as I remember so he's no angel.

Yeah, well we'll have to agree to disagree on that one TBH.
I think Hamilton has had far fewer "incidents" and crashes than most other drivers, especially considering his long career.
Of course you have to be determined and tenacious, (and selfish) to be a World Champ, at anything, not just F1, and you will undoubtedly step on a few toes on the way there, inevitably, but there are ways to go about becoming (and staying) a World Champ IMHO, and Max is not a great example for me.
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion of course....

 

[TD_boy]

I don't see Vettel, Senna, Schumacher, Hamilton and Max as flawed, I see them as hungry winners. Being kind and courteous on track doesn't make you a multiple world champion, ask his lordship Hamilton because he's done his fair share of 'elbows out' driving by forcing others off to get results. There are at least a couple of instances between him and Rosberg as I remember so he's no angel.

Hungry winners or blatant cheats...

These guys were both at various times - unfortunately the penalties were not severe enough to deter the latter attributes.

 

[Bill.B]

Hungry winners or blatant cheats...

These guys were both at various times - unfortunately the penalties were not severe enough to deter the latter attributes.

Don't forget the cheating teams.

 

[Attempting accuracy]

I disagree too, Schumacher was a legend.
Was he the widest car on the track? Yup
But he also knew how to get the best from the car/tyres and be able to relay what he needed to the mechanics. I’ll always remember him driving off the line on a drying circuit to keep his mods cool enough to eek out 4 more laps - he won that race!
On the track it’s war! Senna, schu, Hamilton and max, love or hate em you can’t deny their will to win.

We lack gentleman racers these days as all of the old guard seem arrogant. Time for a Lando/ Russell/le clerc/ Piastri wave methinks!

 

[Attempting accuracy]

And how Flávio has ended up back on the pit lane after crash gate defies explanation.

That said I do miss the old outspoken team principles - brawn, Dennis, Williams, Jordan, Richard’s and domenicalli

 

[Buglecall]

Glad Norris won,did not mind if Piastri won mid season but after his botched restart and asking to swap places he become a bit of a whinger. This was caused by some extent of the team being to "fair" to the drivers. Also all the talk of the team favouring a Brit got on me nerves.

 

[whathesmeg]

I know Lewis was not in the fight and it has been a very dissapointing season for him, do not like seeing him so dejected ..is it time for him to retire?

I think Lewis will give next year a go with the new regulations, if the car is uncompetitve then he will retire.
He lost his dog recently so he will need to get over that in the winter break.

 

[Bill.B]

I think Lewis will give next year a go with the new regulations, if the car is uncompetitve then he will retire.
He lost his dog recently so he will need to get over that in the winter break.

I think he'll anyway retire next year.
BTW, Is it just me, or does Alonso seem to have more get up and go about him than Hamilton does, even though he is older. He certainly seems to enjoy himself on track a lot more.

 

[Buglecall]

I am no big fan of Hamilton but dont get all the ,he`s past it guff.
Lets be honest,its all about the car now.When Hamilton had the top car he become this racing god and got a knighthood,whats he done now. Early in the season when strapons car was crap he was saying i have no chance,got the car working better and that all changed.
mind you i say its all the car,you could put stroll in the top car and he would still be crap

 

[urbanxi]

I'm so glad Lando won it! Fantastic to see a Brit with the title. He seems such a lovely person too.
I must admit I got something in my eye when his Mum came to greet him (If you look back, the camera man behind her was bawling his eyes out too!)

For the last 10 years now, the driver who won in Abu Dhabi has won the title the following year....

It'll be a close one next year, Oscars trajectory was rocketing at the start of the season, and I think he'll be extremely strong next year. But Mr Verstappen never relents!

 

[pjgtech]

Lets be honest,its all about the car now.When Hamilton had the top car he become this racing god and got a knighthood,whats he done now. Early in the season when strapons car was crap he was saying i have no chance,got the car working better and that all changed.
mind you i say its all the car,you could put stroll in the top car and he would still be crap

No-one can win the F1 World championship without a good car! Its a team sport, anyone that thinks otherwise is a fool.
You need a great driver, with the experience and talent to win, but you also you need a good team, you need a great car, you need good mechanics in the pits, you need sponsors and you also, generally, need a bit of luck.
You can be the best driver in the world but if you ain't in a good team, with a good car, you ain't gonna win. Simple.
Its the same for every other team sport, football, rugby, cricket, etc, generally the best players will always gravitate towards the best teams.
You can be the greatest footballer in the world, but you ain't gonna win many trophies playing for ***Suburbs United
(*** NB: insert cr*p footie team name here).
Vettel was a great driver but could not win in a cr*p Ferrari, same story with Alonso, so yes the car needs to be the best, but so does the driver (and the team) it needs to be the whole package.

 

[pjgtech]

I think people forget that Lewis also had very talented teammates to beat within his own teams, and has never had a no'1 driver clause in his contract.
At McLaren he had Alonso as a team mate (2x World Champ) plus he had Button (also went on to be a World Champ), then at Mercedes he had Rosberg (also went on to be a World Champ). You could argue that Bottas was a no'2 driver, (albeit not officially), but I think he was just not as good a driver (although still very good driver) and the Team effectively favoured Lewis rather than Lewis having a No'1 Driver clause.

How many other World Champs had World class team mates, Schuey? Vettel? Max? and how many did indeed have no'1 driver clause in their contracts?
I think the last time you genuinely had two World Class drivers in the same team was back with Senna/Prost....

 

[Captain_Saxa]

Full transparency - I've been an RB fan since the takeover from Jaguar...

I know Lewis was not in the fight and it has been a very disappointing season for him, do not like seeing him so dejected ..is it time for him to retire?

Its a shame to see him so dejected, but, this is what happens when a clearly above average (but far from "GOAT") level driver gets over-comfortable having had the best package (car, team, strategy) for so many years and then when its taken away, what's left of the "true talent" is laid bare - and that's what we're seeing. Or lack of it. Its easy to look like the greatest driver to have ever lived when you have the most dominant package the sport has ever seen and a team mate you can use as a battering ram, only to be constantly told to move over on the last lap to let him through. "Valteri, its James.....". Cant wait to see what him and Perez can show us in 2026..

Did have to laugh when Llando was very reluctant to acknowledge MBS

I laugh when any of the drivers do this, which most do. He's a stain on the sport and with the number of people at the top that the sport has lost (sacked for not agreeing with him) and the fact that a huge amount of rules/regs in the sport have been changed to further his power/reach, the sooner he's gone, the better. The fact he stood unopposed for the position again is farcical but was cleverly engineered by him over the last 2 years. He's the only FIA president I've ever seen who has to be on the grid and under the feet of the drivers at the end of races etc. He's overly-familiar in my view, and the drivers dont seem to like it.

A little bit tense after his overtake of Yuki Tsunoda, but luckily the stewards came to the right decision...

Dirty move by Yuki and very glad that the stewards made the right call in not penalising Lando for leaving the track and gaining a lasting advantage given he had no-where else to do. Personally, i would have given a harsher than 5 seconds to Yuki for that. Could have ended quite badly. Thankfully, Lando has a history of lawn mower overtakes and seems to be quite good at them!

Why would Max be insufferable? He never brags, he's quite a level headed individual and gives praise to others where praise is due, and he's a doting father. What's not to like, apart from his seemingly impossible talent.

It always cracks me up how much hate there is in the sport. Max has been a bit of a dick at times. Mercedes actually worked this out long before most i think. They realised they only had to wind him up and he would switch to "aggression" mode and get himself in trouble, which helped their strategy no end, but you only have to look at Lando to see where being the nice guy all the time gets you. Sometimes, you just have to get your elbows out and bump wheels to let people know how it is.

I like to feel im very objective with my 20+ year support of F1. I can see and discuss the flaws in my favourite team as well as those i perceive in others. Oddly, this seems to be a trait which doesn't exist in Hamilton fans, who have very short memories and claim him to be the squeakiest of clean drivers and a flawless penalty record.

A couple of years ago (it may even have been on here), I found the opposite is actually true. If you add up the total number of incidents with other drivers where Verstappen and Hamilton were involved and seen/penalised as the causal factor and then average that against the number of race starts, Hamilton has actually been much worse...


Despite being a RB fan, I'm glad Lando took the Championship this year. He seems a really likeable kid and Max already has 4 in the bag. With the new regs coming next year, everything is up in the air and there's no guarantee that the McLaren will be as competitive - this could have been his one and only shot at getting the big boy cup, so I'm glad he got it. It also means Piastri didnt and im glad. For reasons i cant quite put a finger on, i just don't like him...