Crap PCP v Good Springer

[TR158]

Nowt wrong with older used PCPs but personally I’d give cheaper brands a swerve
Reg issues, barrel issues, mag issues and poor spares availability put me right off

Something else you might want to figure in, despite cost, is how much you enjoy improving springers. You won’t get that with a pcp

Pretty much this, although there are some gems which are coming out of the Reximex stable.

There are also issues (at the very cheap end) with sloppy fit and poor finishing of barrels etc, not to mention poor QC prior to leaving the factory, which passes directly through the importer and the shop, to the customer. I have seen chewed seals, which have eventually broken down and leaked, swarf inside the action, trigger, barrel and burrs galore, usually around the transfer port. I would say, if it's cheap enough and at least has a good barrel, and you have the patience and facilities, go for it. After all, there is little more satisfying than turning a cheap blunderbus into a benchrest capable Annie/Steyr/FWB upsetting machine

I have both (PCP and Springer) and enjoy both for their unique characteristics. I find PCP so much easier to shoot accurately. Literally unpack, cock, load, fire, hit. A springer, as most of us know, isn't quite as simple, and they are unforgiving of poor technique. However, whereas I will usually rattle through, say, two or three PCPs in a couple of hours, I will spend a much longer time with a Springer, edging ever closer to that elusive 'one hole' group, which sometimes happens and sometimes doesn't. But when I achieve it, it feels like I've won the lottery. Whereas with a PCP, it's expected.

 

[Stellacosworth]

Pretty much this, although there are some gems which are coming out of the Reximex stable.

There are also issues (at the very cheap end) with sloppy fit and poor finishing of barrels etc, not to mention poor QC prior to leaving the factory, which passes directly through the importer and the shop, to the customer. I have seen chewed seals, which have eventually broken down and leaked, swarf inside the action, trigger, barrel and burrs galore, usually around the transfer port. I would say, if it's cheap enough and at least has a good barrel, and you have the patience and facilities, go for it. After all, there is little more satisfying than turning a cheap blunderbus into a benchrest capable Annie/Steyr/FWB upsetting machine

I have both (PCP and Springer) and enjoy both for their unique characteristics. I find PCP so much easier to shoot accurately. Literally unpack, cock, load, fire, hit. A springer, as most of us know, isn't quite as simple, and they are unforgiving of poor technique. However, whereas I will usually rattle through, say, two or three PCPs in a couple of hours, I will spend a much longer time with a Springer, edging ever closer to that elusive 'one hole' group, which sometimes happens and sometimes doesn't. But when I achieve it, it feels like I've won the lottery. Whereas with a PCP, it's expected.

Agreed. Rubbish analogy time! I find time on the range with my pcps a bit akin to the golf driving range, blatting shot after shot with real competition when benched, only coming from the furthest challenges. Springer shooting meanwhile is like playing the course, taking time to achieve a good shot every time as the potential for it to go t1ts up is ever present

 

[TR158]

Agreed. Rubbish analogy time! I find time on the range with my pcps a bit akin to the golf driving range, blatting shot after shot with real competition when benched, only coming from the furthest challenges. Springer shooting meanwhile is like playing the course, taking time to achieve a good shot every time as the potential for it to go t1ts up is ever present

Nothing wrong with that analogy

 

[NEIL MCMLX]

Nowt wrong with older used PCPs but personally I’d give cheaper brands a swerve
Reg issues, barrel issues, mag issues and poor spares availability put me right off

Something else you might want to figure in, despite cost, is how much you enjoy improving springers. You won’t get that with a pcp

Got to disagree a bit. There's a recent thread on pr900gen3. Lighten the hammer spring, bit of a fiddle with the tp, valve and reg and its transformed every bit as much as fitting a tbt into a springer.

 

[colinb]

Accuracy is down to barrel quality and a matched pellet . Regardless of the power plant. A PCP is just easier to use( or arguably needs less skill) than a springer

Dead right. A TX200 owner at my range outshoots most of not all PCPs. Cost is irrelevant.

 

[timeontarget]

Wash your mouth out with soap young man!
Am I over 85 years old?--No
Am I American?--No
Are both my legs still attached--Yes.

Therefore there is no excuse for an automatic car!!

I bought an automatic last month.....

 

[timeontarget]

I only have springers. Sometimes I contemplate getting an older PCP like an RWS Excalibure or Webley equivalent as they are beautiful. Then I shoot my neighbours PCP and after 5 minutes that dream just disappears and I'm back to springers again.
As Paul Newman once said.
'Why go out for burgers when you have steak at home?'

 

[Neil123]

I bought an automatic last month.....

I hope it's Happy 86th birthday not sorry your leg fell off

 

[sneakypierre]

I've all sorts of PCPs and Springers, most of the springers are well tuned including that Diana 54 Airking that I had off you. While the top PCPs are accurate as anything with a little input from me there is a certain feel or one might even say romance to shooting a good sprinter well it takes effort and thought to shoot a springer really well. Just my view but I think springers have personality.
That said if I am out on my farm just dealing with the usual pests then one of the electronic Daystates come out and just do the job, so I can see that if you wanted an inexpensive rifle for vermin control then a low end PCP would do just fine

 

[leezgunz]

Thing is ,,,budget pcp's can be ridiculously accurate,,cheapest pcp I got was my pp750,,250 quid and I used to zero at 24y,,one hole group all day long,, never got boring though coz it was my garden rat gun,,that never gets boring,

 

[timeontarget]

I hope it's Happy 86th birthday not sorry your leg fell off

Neither

 

[joe average]

Or would they come with other problems usually associated with cheap crap.

not too long ago , i would agree with this but my last two purchases of an AP900 and a gen3 PR900W, couldn't be any further from that statement

 

[Nibody]

I currently in the process of doing the opposite. Love my two main Reximex PCP's but looking at a step up from the Sabre TH springer (ideally a Wiehrauch).

I can stack pellets with the PCP's (mostly the myth) and have only just got the Remington Sabre's trigger "passable" and started experimenting with holds - groups but nowhere near as tight as the PCP's

 

[Avalon]

Simply different tools to do a similar job.

I tend to set my limits at a Krale in terms of ‘low end’, as the Chinese stuff always leaves me disappointed with the material quality, but yes, it’s certainly possible to get a low end gun to shoot reasonably well, but more importantly with a little time and effort invested in de-burring and polishing, you can start to see how easy they are to improve, and for me that’s what’s really rewarding about budget guns.

 

[Frog]

Nowt wrong with older used PCPs but personally I’d give cheaper brands a swerve
Reg issues, barrel issues, mag issues and poor spares availability put me right off

Something else you might want to figure in, despite cost, is how much you enjoy improving springers. You won’t get that with a pcp

In many respects tuning / improving PCPs is easier than tuning a springer. Plenty to do and a lot of it is very analogous (even identical really albeit a hammer weighs less than a piston and the springs are smaller!) to springer tuning - all about getting the right balance.

I bought my PR900 5 or 6 years ago second-hand for £130 and not have a problem with it. Improved it with a lane reg and a bit of fettle and it remains one of, if not the, most accurate PCP I have in a stable that includes daystate, AA, FX and Brocock amongst others...

 

[FPoole]

I only own TX 200's, but I can always shoot a decent PCP with better accuracy. The PCP just seems easy, but I've only shot an Air Arms S400, and an Air Arms Pro Target. The TX's are definitely accurate, but it takes more work. My TX's are pretty much factory original, no high dollar tunes, and I shoot them seated, rested on my knees, FT style.

 

[Gym.Hodgson]

Anyone can shot a PcP with a finite degree of accuracy, but can those same people master the intricacies & eccentricities of a springer?
But the question posited does not adequately define ‘crap’ in relation to accuracy, does it? Exactly what is crap vis à vis pcp/springer? Good will always beat crap, won’t it? Unless crap is down to inadequate skill on the shooters part.
In all honesty, the innate accuracy of a PCP is actually putting me off buying one. I’d much rather spend time mastering a springer on ‘target’.
If I was, ahm, killing things, then it’d be PCP all the way.

 

[Dioclese]

I've all sorts of PCPs and Springers, most of the springers are well tuned including that Diana 54 Airking that I had off you. While the top PCPs are accurate as anything with a little input from me there is a certain feel or one might even say romance to shooting a good sprinter well it takes effort and thought to shoot a springer really well. Just my view but I think springers have personality.
That said if I am out on my farm just dealing with the usual pests then one of the electronic Daystates come out and just do the job, so I can see that if you wanted an inexpensive rifle for vermin control then a low end PCP would do just fineView attachment 971693

Nice bit of carpentry there SP.
I hope those screws holding the pellet shelf are substantial, I would have to have the lead on the bottom shelf, or I might wake up in the middle of the night, in a cold sweat!!!!

Lovely collection though-a man after my own heart. An installation fit for the Tate Modern

 

[Fungus63]

personally id stick to springers

 

[Avalon]

Anyone can shot a PcP with a finite degree of accuracy, but can those same people master the intricacies & eccentricities of a springer?
But the question posited does not adequately define ‘crap’ in relation to accuracy, does it? Exactly what is crap vis à vis pcp/springer? Good will always beat crap, won’t it? Unless crap is down to inadequate skill on the shooters part.
In all honesty, the innate accuracy of a PCP is actually putting me off buying one. I’d much rather spend time mastering a springer on ‘target’.
If I was, ahm, killing things, then it’d be PCP all the way.

Exactly the reason I bought my TX, every time I get it out of the case, it reminds me the importance of proper hold, controlled breathing, correct trigger control and follow through and the absolute need to do so consistently. We always part on good terms, but those first few shots are painful reminders of how forgiving a modern PCP is vs a springer, and that it covers up a multitude of sins and provides much more ‘instant gratification’.

As you say, if dealing with a large rodent infestation or a busy permission, a magazine fed PCP makes the job quicker and easier all round, and especially in perhaps less experienced hands, that is the better option. A springer requires more everything, except lead and kit to make it shoot.