Correct info pleaee

[P8X]

I want something confirming I’m getting mixed answers off of people, where do you stand on a closed ticket and you are invited out by a friend to shoot on their permission on land that they have cleared for the said calibre you are using?
Thank you

Relative to pest control, not club use.

With a closed ticket, you cannot shoot on any land, other than the land which you submitted with your application, without getting a variation to authorise a new piece of land. Period.
Wording on the ticket will be something like "land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police, for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot"
The important wording is "deemed suitable by the chief officer of police". That means they decide where you can shoot, not you.

An open ticket allows you to shoot any land you deem safe, "on land and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot"

The quoted excerpts are taken directly from my closed ticket (which was issued in error and immediately replaced by the open ticket which had been agreed would be issued at grant) and my open ticket, which was issued in a matter of days to replace the closed one.

 

[P8X]

Its wrong information Ed, if you know for a fact the land is cleared for the caliber on your ticket and you have permission from the land owner you can legally shoot there mate.
Your lawful authority to posess the rifle/caliber is based on the land you submitted but doesn’t restrict you to that land only.
You can shoot anywhere that has been cleared by the police for your caliber as long as you have permission.
No need to phone the fuzz, crack on

I think you're wrong on this
With reference to my above post, I was promised an open ticket. When it arrived, it had the conditions described within as quoted above. I rang the FEO as it didn't look right. I was correct. They'd mistakenly issued a closed ticket, which the FEO advised would mean me getting a variation to shoot on any land, other than that submitted at application.

They immediately reissued an open ticket

The reason I was granted an open ticket, was that between application and interview, I'd had permission granted on 3 further farms, consisting of around 500 acres, with more promised.

 

[P8X]

@eds81 I'd thoroughly check this out with your FEO
Shooting on unauthorised land under a closed ticket, would mean you could lose your ticket, a lot quicker than you got it, along with being slated for a firearms offence

 

[Lone wolf]

This is all about the wording on your license.

If it says closed you can not shoot on any other land, even if it's been cleared for the caliber you want to use, you can only shoot on the land you submitted on your application.

Open is where you can shoot on land that you have been given permission on or as a guest/invitation.

Also with a open ticket you can assess what caliber can be used safely, so say your mate has his fac and when he got this land checked they only cleared it to .223 because thats what he asked for, you could take your .243 down and use it because you are deemed safe enough and experienced enough to make that call.

This opens up the whole argument to get all Licensing departments to clear land to its maximum caliber when caring out land suitably but that's a whole different story for a thread on it's own.

when it comes back Ed show us how its worded, or if I was you I would ring them and tell them that you have been invited to regularly shoot on other land with a freind, they may then open your ticket, if they have not sent it off yet it's worth dropping that in the mix

 

[eds81]

@eds81 I'd thoroughly check this out with your FEO
Shooting on unauthorised land under a closed ticket, would mean you could lose your ticket, a lot quicker than you got it, along with being slated for a firearms offence

I’m know where I can go I’m awaiting there reply to my email. I think your reply is bang on the money.

 

[joniship]

Ive been following this thread with interest and a bit of confusion. Ive only had my ticket 12mths and its a closed ticket. I only had 1 perm when i was granted which was the local golf course. That land had already been passed for a higher calibre than my .22 air so i was allowed to shoot on it with clubs permission. I then asked my FAO to check if a 150 acre farm which i have permission to shoot on was safe for my .22 fac air. He asked for address and confirmed that the land was on their database and had been approved many years earlier for much higher calibre than my .22 air so i was allowed to shoot that land. Next i asked about a 50 acre caravan park. That site had never been approved so my FAO went inspect the site and called me to say that it was safe to use my .22 air and it was now on their database up to my calibre. Another 2 were passed in the same way.
I didnt have to ask for a variation on any of them, just a phone call with address details and they did the relevant checks.
My ticket states that my my rifle can be used for vermin control and zeroing on land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated and that i have permission on said land from the owner to shoot my class of firearm.
Im also part of a syndicate with shooting permission on a large estate which had again already been passed for a higher calibre than my rifle when i asked my FAO to check so im allowed to shoot on the land.
This is how my fac is written from North Wales Police, other forces may differ but i would of thought it would be the same across the board.
Hope this info helps someone in some way as i find it straight forward to be able to gain extra fac suited land to shoot.

 

[eds81]

This is all about the wording on your license.

If it says closed you can not shoot on any other land, even if it's been cleared for the caliber you want to use, you can only shoot on the land you submitted on your application.

Open is where you can shoot on land that you have been given permission on or as a guest/invitation.

Also with a open ticket you can assess what caliber can be used safely, so say your mate has his fac and when he got this land checked they only cleared it to .223 because thats what he asked for, you could take your .243 down and use it because you are deemed safe enough and experienced enough to make that call.

This opens up the whole argument to get all Licensing departments to clear land to its maximum caliber when caring out land suitably but that's a whole different story for a thread on it's own.

when it comes back Ed show us how its worded, or if I was you I would ring them and tell them that you have been invited to regularly shoot on other land with a freind, they may then open your ticket, if they have not sent it off yet it's worth dropping that in the mix

That’s for the info lone wolf, that is all what i thought but you know what its like when your out and about people say different things. My ticket is somewhere between me and Wales with a tikka .243 in matching GRS Stock to my HMR which I have just paid for.

When it gets back I will show you what it says, I’m currently waiting to hear from
FLO, I will also mention the invites.

Thanks Ed

 

[eds81]

Ive been following this thread with interest and a bit of confusion. Ive only had my ticket 12mths and its a closed ticket. I only had 1 perm when i was granted which was the local golf course. That land had already been passed for a higher calibre than my .22 air so i was allowed to shoot on it with clubs permission. I then asked my FAO to check if a 150 acre farm which i have permission to shoot on was safe for my .22 fac air. He asked for address and confirmed that the land was on their database and had been approved many years earlier for much higher calibre than my .22 air so i was allowed to shoot that land. Next i asked about a 50 acre caravan park. That site had never been approved so my FAO went inspect the site and called me to say that it was safe to use my .22 air and it was now on their database up to my calibre. Another 2 were passed in the same way.
I didnt have to ask for a variation on any of them, just a phone call with address details and they did the relevant checks.
My ticket states that my my rifle can be used for vermin control and zeroing on land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated and that i have permission on said land from the owner to shoot my class of firearm.
Im also part of a syndicate with shooting permission on a large estate which had again already been passed for a higher calibre than my rifle when i asked my FAO to check so im allowed to shoot on the land.
This is how my fac is written from North Wales Police, other forces may differ but i would of thought it would be the same across the board.
Hope this info helps someone in some way as i find it straight forward to be able to gain extra fac suited land to shoot.

Great info thank you very much.

 

[Pelletpinger]

With a closed ticket, you cannot shoot on any land, other than the land which you submitted with your application, without getting a variation to authorise a new piece of land. Period.
Wording on the ticket will be something like "land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police, for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot"
The important wording is "deemed suitable by the chief officer of police". That means they decide where you can shoot, not you.

Im sorry but you have that totally wrong.
Unless you have a condition on your license that restricts you to a specific pocket of land you can shoot anywhere as long as the land is cleared for the caliber and you have permission, i had this very conversation with my FEO when i had a closed ticket. Do you really think the Chief Officer has nothing better to do than to approve every single licence holder every time to shoot on new ground they have aquired land in his constabulary? “Land deemed suitable” is just that, he signs the land off for certain calibers and he approves the licence for someone that is successful in applying that has good reason.
The rest is up to the shooter to shoot within the conditions on their licence.

 

[shotaholic]

I haven't read the whole thread, but from what I have read I'm quite surprised at the amount of wrong information and confusion.
It's not rocket science. On a closed (conditioned) ticket you can only shoot on land that has been cleared by the police for the calibre you wish to shoot. Obviously you must also have permission to shoot from the land owner or person who holds the shooting rights.
On an open (un-conditioned) ticket you can shoot any calibre on any land to which you have permission to shoot.
There is no need or requirement to inform the police of all the areas of land you have permission to shoot. You would have nominated one piece of land at you original application and that is the only requirement.

 

[joniship]

I haven't read the whole thread, but from what I have read I'm quite surprised at the amount of wrong information and confusion.
It's not rocket science. On a closed (conditioned) ticket you can only shoot on land that has been cleared by the police for the calibre you wish to shoot. Obviously you must also have permission to shoot from the land owner or person who holds the shooting rights.
On an open (un-conditioned) ticket you can shoot any calibre on any land to which you have permission to shoot.
There is no need or requirement to inform the police of all the areas of land you have permission to shoot. You would have nominated one piece of land at you original application and that is the only requirement.

So simply written in a few words and easy to understand. My post took a lot more words to get to same place

 

[eds81]

I haven't read the whole thread, but from what I have read I'm quite surprised at the amount of wrong information and confusion.
It's not rocket science. On a closed (conditioned) ticket you can only shoot on land that has been cleared by the police for the calibre you wish to shoot. Obviously you must also have permission to shoot from the land owner or person who holds the shooting rights.
On an open (un-conditioned) ticket you can shoot any calibre on any land to which you have permission to shoot.
There is no need or requirement to inform the police of all the areas of land you have permission to shoot. You would have nominated one piece of land at you original application and that is the only requirement.

Well at least we can all see why I asked. So much confusion. Im awaiting my FLO but this thread is a massive help.

 

[metalman]

Basically the difference between the two certificates is the transfer of responsibility from one to the other as regards safe shooting

 

[P8X]

Im sorry but you have that totally wrong.
Unless you have a condition on your license that restricts you to a specific pocket of land you can shoot anywhere as long as the land is cleared for the caliber and you have permission, i had this very conversation with my FEO when i had a closed ticket. Do you really think the Chief Officer has nothing better to do than to approve every single licence holder every time to shoot on new ground they have aquired land in his constabulary? “Land deemed suitable” is just that, he signs the land off for certain calibers and he approves the licence for someone that is successful in applying that has good reason.
The rest is up to the shooter to shoot within the conditions on their licence.

You're suggesting a licence holder with a closed ticket, can simply shoot anywhere they wish, as long as the land is cleared for the calibre they wish to shoot?
I'm going by exactly what I was informed of by my FEO.

Where are you getting your info from?
Only curious as I've had this exact situation that I described, occur at my grant.

 

[P8X]

Basically the difference between the two certificates is the transfer of responsibility from one to the other as regards safe shooting

Yeah I'm aware of that Rich and with an open ticket, the holder is able to assess that.
But that's not the question. Its whether a holder of a closed ticket can shoot on land, that they haven't submitted with their application.

I've been informed face to face by my (not very present now) FEO that that isn't the case. He stated that each bit of new land, other than the one stated at time of application, needed to go through the licensing department before they'd give authority to shoot and that the new parcels of land would be added to the holder's records.
All this was discussed when I realised I've been given a closed rather than the promised open cert, as I questioned the conditions

Have I been given duff info?


Cheers Rob

 

[Bighit]

When I had a closed ticket and I got new land , I informed the Firearms who DID go and check the land . We both agreed it was not safe for .22lr due to being right next to the dual carriageway . Other had it cleared in the past but the dual carriageway was not there then . I only shot my airgun there .

I had another bit of land inspected when I informed the Firearms I had been given it .

I also had my local one checked at my renewal in 2022 as it had not been inspected for years . The FEO told me had been down and he even spoke to the landowner . The landowner also mentioned he had been down.


As with a lot of things in regards to firearms , Some do it differently to others .

 

[shotaholic]

Basically the difference between the two certificates is the transfer of responsibility from one to the other as regards safe shooting

Not quite...... it doesn't matter whether the shooter has an open or closed licence the onus is still on him to decide whether the shot he is about to take is safe or not. Shooting on 'Land Cleared by the Chief of Police' does not relieve him of that responsibility. This is what make the whole issue of land clearance and open/closed licence an absolute nonsense.

 

[Pelletpinger]

You're suggesting a licence holder with a closed ticket, can simply shoot anywhere they wish, as long as the land is cleared for the calibre they wish to shoot?
I'm going by exactly what I was informed of by my FEO.

Where are you getting your info from?
Only curious as I've had this exact situation that I described, occur at my grant.

Yes 100% thats what “The xxxxxx Rifle and ammunition shall be used for shooting VERMIN AND GROUND GAME and for zeroing on ranges, or land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot.” means on your licence! You don’t contact the police to visit an HO approved range because its cleared for your caliber and you have permission to be there. The same applies for land.

Like i say i had this conversation with my Firearms dept years ago because i was under the impression i had to phone in new land every time and they said as long as i was sure the land was cleared i didn’t need to notify them.

 

[eds81]

See what I mean! Both sides have been put across well regarding what’s written on ticket. I’m will see what my FLO says I appreciate everyone’s input thank you all.


Ed

 

[P8X]

Yes 100% thats what “The xxxxxx Rifle and ammunition shall be used for shooting VERMIN AND GROUND GAME and for zeroing on ranges, or land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot.” means on your licence! You don’t contact the police to visit an HO approved range because its cleared for your caliber and you have permission to be there. The same applies for land.

Like i say i had this conversation with my Firearms dept years ago because i was under the impression i had to phone in new land every time and they said as long as i was sure the land was cleared i didn’t need to notify them.

Interesting
Got me wondering whether this is different interpretations for different licensing areas.

I'm aware you had your FAC well before mine. Only had mine 4 years and I know you know your stuff. But it's odd that we've both been given different explanations of the wording on a closed ticket.
Like I say, mine was opened up in a matter of days, so other than the original wrongly issued ticket, mine has always been open.

@eds81 I trust you'll seek clarity of the conditions on your ticket, relevant to your particular situation and update? Cheers