Carbines wobbly or just me?

Greencloud

Greencloud

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I'm wondering whether it's a generality I'm experiencing, or just a circumstance of my particular guns or my trigger time with them.

Having recently acquired a Lyra K, I like it but it seems a bit more 'flighty' around the POA, which comparative groups against my gx40 corresponds to (despite the lyra being .177 and the gx in .22).

I found similar with my springers too. I'm awful with them, but do achieve slightly smaller groups with my longer rifle than my carbine - again though, I've had a lot more trigger time with the long one.

So, is it common for carbines to be slightly less steady? Is that also the case (or maybe more/less) with bullpups.

Obviously as much time as possible will be spent experimenting for myself 😉, but always curious about others findings!
 
Greencloud said:
I'm wondering whether it's a generality I'm experiencing, or just a circumstance of my particular guns or my trigger time with them.

Having recently acquired a Lyra K, I like it but it seems a bit more 'flighty' around the POA, which comparative groups against my gx40 corresponds to (despite the lyra being .177 and the gx in .22).

I found similar with my springers too. I'm awful with them, but do achieve slightly smaller groups with my longer rifle than my carbine - again though, I've had a lot more trigger time with the long one.

So, is it common for carbines to be slightly less steady? Is that also the case (or maybe more/less) with bullpups.

Obviously as much time as possible will be spent experimenting for myself 😉, but always curious about others findings!
Click to expand...
I think its a case of getting used to a carbine with springers a longer or heavery barrel will help with muzzel flip, with the pcp weight distribution maybe?
 
The smaller the rifle the harder to keep still.
Small carbine and bullpups are alot more unsteady due to size and any movement is exagerated due to length
 
If shooting from a rested position, it’s all about a steady, repeatable hold.
Do you shoot your Lyra off a bipod?
A bag. Or just rested on your hand?
Have you tried a support under the rear of the gun?
 
ChrisHobbs said:
If shooting from a rested position, it’s all about a steady, repeatable hold.
Do you shoot your Lyra off a bipod?
A bag. Or just rested on your hand?
Have you tried a support under the rear of the gun?
Click to expand...
Yes, rested at a bench primarily. I was shooting off my usual bag yesterday as with my gx. I did feel obliged due to the little weaver rail under the fore, and bought a little bipod today to try with it!

I still haven't wrapped my head around rear supports - my off-hand goes under there to hold & move the butt around to aim, what's the benefit of holding & fidgeting with a v-bag instead?
 
Greencloud said:
Yes, rested at a bench primarily. I was shooting off my usual bag yesterday as with my gx. I did feel obliged due to the little weaver rail under the fore, and bought a little bipod today to try with it!

I still haven't wrapped my head around rear supports - my off-hand goes under there to hold & move the butt around to aim, what's the benefit of holding & fidgeting with a v-bag instead?
Click to expand...
Was trying to ascertain how your shooting, and how it might telegraph into your results.
Little things can all add up.
I’m by no means the best shot in the world, but with both my PCPs can put sub 12mm groups relatively easily at 30 yards.
Off the bench, I use a bipod up front and, like you, my closed fist under either the pistol grip or rear of stock.
Do you use very high magnification?
I’ve found on high mag (over x10) just the pulse in my hand or cheek can cause the crosshairs to bounce. I then end up chasing the bounce, or having to try and concentrate on shooting between pulses which I find frustrating.
As people have said, a longer barrel can help dampen vibrations, but the difference between a full length Hw100 and a 100kt (for example) is really very little.
A bull pup, where half the barrel is behind the scope, will obviously highlight movement more. But the benefits of having less out front to pull against your stance mean it can be better for freehand shooting.
 
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Without any exception I know about, the top standing precision shooters rifle of choice weighs a ton!

Reasons for that already covered - but I hate them with vengeance.
In my case it's not worth damping any small movements - if all I can manage with a heavy rifle, is large movements!

Not to mention uncomfortable and unpleasant to shoot.
I don't care how accurate they are, life's too short to shoot rifles you don't enjoy using...I'm not that desperate for a medal...although I do alright 😉
 
Greencloud said:
I'm wondering whether it's a generality I'm experiencing, or just a circumstance of my particular guns or my trigger time with them.

Having recently acquired a Lyra K, I like it but it seems a bit more 'flighty' around the POA, which comparative groups against my gx40 corresponds to (despite the lyra being .177 and the gx in .22).

I found similar with my springers too. I'm awful with them, but do achieve slightly smaller groups with my longer rifle than my carbine - again though, I've had a lot more trigger time with the long one.

So, is it common for carbines to be slightly less steady? Is that also the case (or maybe more/less) with bullpups.

Obviously as much time as possible will be spent experimenting for myself 😉, but always curious about others findings!
Click to expand...
Are you partaking of proper offhand shooting ? If so, a longer barreled & heavier rifle will be ( if balance is worth a shi*e), miles steadier than a sawed off little carbine.
Bone to bone for stability, muscle in play incites wobble...
 
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With carbine pcps like my titan mpt I find just pulling it a bit tighter into my shoulder sorts it out, not so simple with springers though.
 
TD_boy said:
Without any exception I know about, the top standing precision shooters rifle of choice weighs a ton!

Reasons for that already covered - but I hate them with vengeance.
In my case it's not worth damping any small movements - if all I can manage with a heavy rifle, is large movements!

Not to mention uncomfortable and unpleasant to shoot.
I don't care how accurate they are, life's too short to shoot rifles you don't enjoy using...I'm not that desperate for a medal...although I do alright 😉
Click to expand...
I'm with you there - at the end of the day it's just for fun. I dont compete so I'm working toward generally accomplished accuracy rather than lazer precision.

I mostly shoot 20 yards because I isually take my son and he finds the short range more fun, so I practice 'shooting small' there.

With my gx40 I can consistently hit within about 15-20mm rested. I'm thinking I'd like to reach that level at greater distances and different positions - and get there with my other guns too. Since my springer groups are more like 150mm I have a ways to go!

chouchin66 said:
Are you partaking of proper offhand shooting ? If so, a longer barreled & heavier rifle will be ( if balance is worth a shi*e), miles steadier than a sawed off little carbine.
Bone to bone for stability, muscle in play incites wobble...
Click to expand...
I don't do anything proper! As above, I mainly just shoot rested for now. As I get better with each of my guns I hope to train myself to shoot reasonably well standing supported (leaning on a post) and eventually just standing (is that proper offhand?).

The overall goal is just rounded capability, both for the sheer challenge of it and in case an opportunity to hunt/pest control comes up so I can be effective.
 
Greencloud said:
I'm with you there - at the end of the day it's just for fun. I dont compete so I'm working toward generally accomplished accuracy rather than lazer precision.

I mostly shoot 20 yards because I isually take my son and he finds the short range more fun, so I practice 'shooting small' there.

With my gx40 I can consistently hit within about 15-20mm rested. I'm thinking I'd like to reach that level at greater distances and different positions - and get there with my other guns too. Since my springer groups are more like 150mm I have a ways to go!


I don't do anything proper! As above, I mainly just shoot rested for now. As I get better with each of my guns I hope to train myself to shoot reasonably well standing supported (leaning on a post) and eventually just standing (is that proper offhand?).

The overall goal is just rounded capability, both for the sheer challenge of it and in case an opportunity to hunt/pest control comes up so I can be effective.
Click to expand...
Good man, good outlook.👍👏👏👏
 
Greencloud said:
I'm with you there - at the end of the day it's just for fun. I dont compete so I'm working toward generally accomplished accuracy rather than lazer precision.

I mostly shoot 20 yards because I isually take my son and he finds the short range more fun, so I practice 'shooting small' there.

With my gx40 I can consistently hit within about 15-20mm rested. I'm thinking I'd like to reach that level at greater distances and different positions - and get there with my other guns too. Since my springer groups are more like 150mm I have a ways to go!


I don't do anything proper! As above, I mainly just shoot rested for now. As I get better with each of my guns I hope to train myself to shoot reasonably well standing supported (leaning on a post) and eventually just standing (is that proper offhand?).

The overall goal is just rounded capability, both for the sheer challenge of it and in case an opportunity to hunt/pest control comes up so I can be effective.
Click to expand...
Out of any advice you get, the one thing that will help most is “Practice”.
👍
 
Everyone's different .. what suits one, will not suit the next person ..
 
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More mass out the front of the gun will increase its moment of inertia, damping the muzzle and making it less reactive to shooter input (wobbling, twitching etc).

So all things being equal (and assuming there's not an excess of mass / length that makes the gun unmanagably muzzle-heavy) a longer gun should be easier to shoot well unsupported - I certainly find this is the case.
 
cloverleaf said:
More mass out the front of the gun will increase its moment of inertia, damping the muzzle and making it less reactive to shooter input (wobbling, twitching etc).

So all things being equal (and assuming there's not an excess of mass / length that makes the gun unmanagably muzzle-heavy) a longer gun should be easier to shoot well unsupported - I certainly find this is the case.
Click to expand...

I understand the principle.

With the lyra k being so short I plan on getting a short moderator for it in keeping. It'll be interesting to compare the respective weights & swap it with my other one to see whether I can feel or realise that effect in action for myself.
 
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