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the Daily hi thread
A bit of History about Yunker & Cybergun co2 bb 'AK47' air rifles
- Thread starter nikvanorton
- Start date
Not the original, though, as it was published on January 26, 2016
Other link: Excursion to the plant "Izhmash" - the homeland of Kalashnikov assault rifles (51 photos)
The date when it was published is interesting: 31-05-2015, that is at the very end of Yunker production.
Ukrainian site version (RedRoy's): Экскурсия по заводу «Ижмаш» - родине автоматов Калашникова (51 фото)
Date: June 1, 2015
Probably those were serial number matched to different SVD/Tigr rifles produced in-house. By the way @nikvanorton, did you notice that this model doesn't have the IR detection filter screen? Apparently, it was 'dropped from production scopes after 1992' (sources: http://www.dragunov.net/optic_pso1.html and https://www.gunboards.com/threads/p...714/?post_id=496894&nested_view=1#post-496894).
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Again reacting to @RedRoyRegulator's latest post:
We go out of our way to find original Russian or Belarusian sights, but Russians actually use plain EOtechs
We go out of our way to find original Russian or Belarusian sights, but Russians actually use plain EOtechs
RedRoyRegulator
Super member
You see @nikvanorton it’s happening again!The original article, by Arslan Ayupoff: Экскурсия по заводу «Ижмаш» — родине автоматов Калашникова
Not the original, though, as it was published on January 26, 2016
Other link: Excursion to the plant "Izhmash" - the homeland of Kalashnikov assault rifles (51 photos)
The date when it was published is interesting: 31-05-2015, that is at the very end of Yunker production.
Ukrainian site version (RedRoy's): Экскурсия по заводу «Ижмаш» - родине автоматов Калашникова (51 фото)
Date: June 1, 2015
View attachment 916518
Probably those were serial number matched to different SVD/Tigr rifles produced in-house. By the way @nikvanorton, did you notice that this model doesn't have the IR detection filter screen? Apparently, it was 'dropped from production scopes after 1992' (sources: http://www.dragunov.net/optic_pso1.html and https://www.gunboards.com/threads/p...714/?post_id=496894&nested_view=1#post-496894).
Does it matter that it wasn’t the original?
What matters is you got to see the whole factory.
Yes I know the whole article has 51 photos but the forum only allows you to post 40 photos, if you ever tried to post such a long thread
that’s the reason in had to cut it shortYou obviously didn't get my point: I was interested in the date when the photos were made and it so happens that they were taken sometime in or before 2015, which is exactly the year when Yunker rifle production stopped at Izhmash. I then tried to spot a Yunker among the different AKs that could be seen on the photos but couldn't find any.You see @nikvanorton it’s happening again!
Does it matter that it wasn’t the original?
What matters is you got to see the whole factory.
Yes I know the whole article has 51 photos but the forum only allows you to post 40 photos, if you ever tried to post such a long thread
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To go back to the Izhmash logo on Yunker magazines, I have found mention of the two different variants:
They are simply called Ижмаш большой / малый, that is 'Izhmash large' and 'Izhmash small', without any indication of the time when each of them was used. The larger one seems to be the older version, though.
What is much more interesting is the site where I found that information: https://vk.com/@iwp_infinity_weapons_project-vsevozmozhnye-vidy-magazinov-ak-kalibra-545h39
Here goes the English version: https://coolfx.us/ak/ak74_mag_guide.htm (I am certain some of you on here already know it)
This time, there is no need to tediously translate the Russian article bit by bit, as the original article was the American AK mag guide
I must say I found that quite disappointing to learn that our Russian comrades got their information directly from the U.S. - isn't Russia supposed to be the true home of the AK?
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This is another extract from K. V. Podgornov's authoritative book on Kalashnikov rifles:
On AK74 assault rifles, starting in 1974, the magazines (Fig. 18) acquired a smooth transition on the front wall (58). The materials from which these magazines were made could differ in fiber structure, which affected their appearance. The AG-4S material had a wavy structure due to the long fiber. The AG-4V had a recognizable appearance based on its structure, and the magazines themselves became popularly known as "Karelian birch." It is worth noting that AG-4V magazines were produced in small quantities. These magazines could have several types of base plates (Figs. 74-75-76-77), which differed in the shapes of the stampings but were completely interchangeable.
The next version of the AK74 assault rifle magazine (Fig. 19) featured a different magazine feed neck (59). This particular magazine, in addition to Izhmash, was also produced at the Tula Arms Plant. These magazines were later further modified (Fig. 20), removing the angular protrusion (60). These were the final versions of assault rifle magazines made from the AG-4S, after which they began to be manufactured from a different material: glass-filled polyamide grade PA6.
But before describing the polyamide magazines, it's worth mentioning the very rare AG-4V magazines, designed to hold twenty rounds (Fig. 21). They couldn't be reloaded using clips with an adapter. In 1973, these magazines were used in experimental assault rifles participating in the "Modern" R&D project (to adopt a compact assault rifle, which eventually became the AKS-74U). These magazines were also found on the 6S1 "Kanareyka" rifle-grenade launcher systems.
Later, twenty-round magazines were made of plum-coloured PA6 polyamide (Fig. 22). Unlike the twenty-round magazines from the AG-4V, the polyamide magazines had grooves for installing an adapter when filling the magazine from clips (61). These magazines had special shortened springs (Fig. 47) with sixteen coils, as well as a shortened metal follower (Fig. 59). The appearance of the AG-4V magazine base plate (Fig. 74) was borrowed from the early thirty-round magazines; the base plates of the twenty-round polyamide magazines looked more conventional (Fig. 75): with a closed contour stamping.
The first Izhevsk-made polyamide magazines with a capacity of thirty rounds for the AK74 assault rifle (Fig. 23) appeared around 1983. They were partially ribbed on the vertical surfaces of the rear wall and sides. More widely produced varieties (Fig. 24) appeared later and were already produced at both Izhmash and TOZ. Their distinguishing feature was a round imprint (62) on the magazine well. In addition, the lower part of the magazine had a forward edge (63). Most often, the feeders and locking bars of these magazines were made of steel. Later, both the magazine well, which received an additional cutout (64), and its lower part, which, instead of a pronounced edge, acquired a smooth curve (65), were modified. At Izhmash, these magazines were initially produced in the traditional "plum" colour scheme, then, in the early 1990s, black polyamide began to be used in their manufacture. TOZ produced these magazines in a plum colour until 1993. Later magazines also featured new components—the feeders (Fig. 60) and locking bars (Fig. 88)—which were now made of PA6 polyamide. A small number of magazine bodies produced at PO Izhmash in 1986 were made of green polyamide and intended for special AK74 award assault rifles of the KGB border troops of the USSR. The bodies of these magazines had mould numbers "19" and "23." The feeders and locking bars of the "green" magazines were made of standard "plum" polyamide.
The AK-100 series assault rifles invariably had black polyamide magazines; the only difference was the shape of the magazine joints, depending on the caliber of the weapon. The AK74M and AK105 inherited the black polyamide magazines from the AK74 assault rifles (Fig. 25). The 5.56 mm assault rifles (AK101 and AK102) received identical magazines (Fig. 26), which had an indication of the cartridge used (5.56 NATO) on the left side of the body (66). Magazines for both 5.45 mm and 5.56 mm assault rifles had the same springs (Fig. 45), locking bars (Fig. 88), and base plates (Fig. 76). However, the magazine followers for 5.56 mm cartridges (Fig. 62) differed from the followers for 5.45 mm cartridges.
Magazines for the AK103 and AK104 assault rifles were produced in two versions: an early version (Fig. 27), with ribbed walls, and a later version (Fig. 28), with smooth walls. The second type of magazine had the marking "7.62x39" (67) on the left side. The base plates of these magazines (Figs. 79-80) differed in the contours of the upper part (the earlier base plates were made with a figured design (68). The feeders (Fig. 55) and locking bars (Fig. 89) of these magazines were made of polyamide.
My Yunker mags (one is a spare mag) are all of the black type, and three out of five have the 47 mould number and "small" Izhmash logo.
Mould number 54 is the one that stands out in my opinion, as it is atypical of Yunker mag mould numbers as a whole, it is also the one that has a full serial number stamped on it.
Those Yunker mags all have the same type of base plate.
The Yunker-4 mag shell is markedly different from the standard Yu-3/Yu-2 mag, as you all know.
A lot more of the plastic material had to be cut off to accomodate the (then) new CO2 system.
The Yu-4 mag has the 47 mould number, but, as we have seen, that mould was also used for Yu-3 and Yu-2 magazines, so it is difficult to establish a precise chronology for the use of the different magazine moulds.
All three "47 mags" I have at home bear the smaller Izhmash logo - they were obviously made from the very same moulds, whatever the date of production of their respective Yunker rifles may be.
I made my spare Cybergun magazine from a Tula AKM mag, but this one is interesting to show the wavy structure of the material used there (AG-4S).
Its base plate is also of a much earlier pattern than the base plates we can find on our Yunker mags.
"Kadet" magazines are also of a different type - still made by Izhmash using the AG-4S material, and hence much earlier than standard Yunker magazines. Tula mag shells would have been much more appropriate, as these airguns bear the Tula plant star, but I suppose they are much rarer than Izhmash magazines.
Unsurprisingly, their base plates are also of an earlier type.
The rather high number (65) of the mould of the magazine on the left tells us that mould number is not to be equated with chronological sequence.
The 'fat' Izhmash logo, on the contrary, is indicative of earlier production.
The older, the fatter, if I may say so
On AK74 assault rifles, starting in 1974, the magazines (Fig. 18) acquired a smooth transition on the front wall (58). The materials from which these magazines were made could differ in fiber structure, which affected their appearance. The AG-4S material had a wavy structure due to the long fiber. The AG-4V had a recognizable appearance based on its structure, and the magazines themselves became popularly known as "Karelian birch." It is worth noting that AG-4V magazines were produced in small quantities. These magazines could have several types of base plates (Figs. 74-75-76-77), which differed in the shapes of the stampings but were completely interchangeable.
The next version of the AK74 assault rifle magazine (Fig. 19) featured a different magazine feed neck (59). This particular magazine, in addition to Izhmash, was also produced at the Tula Arms Plant. These magazines were later further modified (Fig. 20), removing the angular protrusion (60). These were the final versions of assault rifle magazines made from the AG-4S, after which they began to be manufactured from a different material: glass-filled polyamide grade PA6.
But before describing the polyamide magazines, it's worth mentioning the very rare AG-4V magazines, designed to hold twenty rounds (Fig. 21). They couldn't be reloaded using clips with an adapter. In 1973, these magazines were used in experimental assault rifles participating in the "Modern" R&D project (to adopt a compact assault rifle, which eventually became the AKS-74U). These magazines were also found on the 6S1 "Kanareyka" rifle-grenade launcher systems.
Later, twenty-round magazines were made of plum-coloured PA6 polyamide (Fig. 22). Unlike the twenty-round magazines from the AG-4V, the polyamide magazines had grooves for installing an adapter when filling the magazine from clips (61). These magazines had special shortened springs (Fig. 47) with sixteen coils, as well as a shortened metal follower (Fig. 59). The appearance of the AG-4V magazine base plate (Fig. 74) was borrowed from the early thirty-round magazines; the base plates of the twenty-round polyamide magazines looked more conventional (Fig. 75): with a closed contour stamping.
The first Izhevsk-made polyamide magazines with a capacity of thirty rounds for the AK74 assault rifle (Fig. 23) appeared around 1983. They were partially ribbed on the vertical surfaces of the rear wall and sides. More widely produced varieties (Fig. 24) appeared later and were already produced at both Izhmash and TOZ. Their distinguishing feature was a round imprint (62) on the magazine well. In addition, the lower part of the magazine had a forward edge (63). Most often, the feeders and locking bars of these magazines were made of steel. Later, both the magazine well, which received an additional cutout (64), and its lower part, which, instead of a pronounced edge, acquired a smooth curve (65), were modified. At Izhmash, these magazines were initially produced in the traditional "plum" colour scheme, then, in the early 1990s, black polyamide began to be used in their manufacture. TOZ produced these magazines in a plum colour until 1993. Later magazines also featured new components—the feeders (Fig. 60) and locking bars (Fig. 88)—which were now made of PA6 polyamide. A small number of magazine bodies produced at PO Izhmash in 1986 were made of green polyamide and intended for special AK74 award assault rifles of the KGB border troops of the USSR. The bodies of these magazines had mould numbers "19" and "23." The feeders and locking bars of the "green" magazines were made of standard "plum" polyamide.
The AK-100 series assault rifles invariably had black polyamide magazines; the only difference was the shape of the magazine joints, depending on the caliber of the weapon. The AK74M and AK105 inherited the black polyamide magazines from the AK74 assault rifles (Fig. 25). The 5.56 mm assault rifles (AK101 and AK102) received identical magazines (Fig. 26), which had an indication of the cartridge used (5.56 NATO) on the left side of the body (66). Magazines for both 5.45 mm and 5.56 mm assault rifles had the same springs (Fig. 45), locking bars (Fig. 88), and base plates (Fig. 76). However, the magazine followers for 5.56 mm cartridges (Fig. 62) differed from the followers for 5.45 mm cartridges.
Magazines for the AK103 and AK104 assault rifles were produced in two versions: an early version (Fig. 27), with ribbed walls, and a later version (Fig. 28), with smooth walls. The second type of magazine had the marking "7.62x39" (67) on the left side. The base plates of these magazines (Figs. 79-80) differed in the contours of the upper part (the earlier base plates were made with a figured design (68). The feeders (Fig. 55) and locking bars (Fig. 89) of these magazines were made of polyamide.
My Yunker mags (one is a spare mag) are all of the black type, and three out of five have the 47 mould number and "small" Izhmash logo.
Mould number 54 is the one that stands out in my opinion, as it is atypical of Yunker mag mould numbers as a whole, it is also the one that has a full serial number stamped on it.
Those Yunker mags all have the same type of base plate.
The Yunker-4 mag shell is markedly different from the standard Yu-3/Yu-2 mag, as you all know.
A lot more of the plastic material had to be cut off to accomodate the (then) new CO2 system.
The Yu-4 mag has the 47 mould number, but, as we have seen, that mould was also used for Yu-3 and Yu-2 magazines, so it is difficult to establish a precise chronology for the use of the different magazine moulds.
All three "47 mags" I have at home bear the smaller Izhmash logo - they were obviously made from the very same moulds, whatever the date of production of their respective Yunker rifles may be.
I made my spare Cybergun magazine from a Tula AKM mag, but this one is interesting to show the wavy structure of the material used there (AG-4S).
Its base plate is also of a much earlier pattern than the base plates we can find on our Yunker mags.
"Kadet" magazines are also of a different type - still made by Izhmash using the AG-4S material, and hence much earlier than standard Yunker magazines. Tula mag shells would have been much more appropriate, as these airguns bear the Tula plant star, but I suppose they are much rarer than Izhmash magazines.
Unsurprisingly, their base plates are also of an earlier type.
The rather high number (65) of the mould of the magazine on the left tells us that mould number is not to be equated with chronological sequence.
The 'fat' Izhmash logo, on the contrary, is indicative of earlier production.
The older, the fatter, if I may say so
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John M
Member Extraordinaire
Amazing detail Didier - thanks for sharing.
I'll need to print it all off and digest at leisure.
I'll need to print it all off and digest at leisure.
We are much indebted to Konstantin V. Podgornov: to me, his book is the ultimate source of information on Kalashnikov rifles.
I have to say that this was only the part that had something to do with our own Yunker magazines - there is much much more on AK mags in his book, but it did take me a whole evening to translate what little information I have posted on here.
I forgot to post these:
A 'special award' assault rifle for the KGB border troops of the Soviet Union - the furniture and the magazine are made of green polyamide - probably the rarest of all AK74s (K. V. Podgornov mentioned them in his chapter on AK74 mags).
The plaque reads ПОБЕДИТЕЛЮ СОРЕВНОВАНИЯ, ОТ ГЛАВНОГО КОНСТРУКТОРА М. Т. КАЛАШНИКОВА, that is, To the Winner of the Competition, from the Chief Designer M. T. Kalashnikov.
I have encountered this set on the Internet, though:
Are they genuine border troops AK74 furniture, magazines and bayonet or were they just painted green?
Medium-green was of course the branch of service colour of Soviet border troops.
A 'special award' assault rifle for the KGB border troops of the Soviet Union - the furniture and the magazine are made of green polyamide - probably the rarest of all AK74s (K. V. Podgornov mentioned them in his chapter on AK74 mags).
The plaque reads ПОБЕДИТЕЛЮ СОРЕВНОВАНИЯ, ОТ ГЛАВНОГО КОНСТРУКТОРА М. Т. КАЛАШНИКОВА, that is, To the Winner of the Competition, from the Chief Designer M. T. Kalashnikov.
I have encountered this set on the Internet, though:
Are they genuine border troops AK74 furniture, magazines and bayonet or were they just painted green?
Medium-green was of course the branch of service colour of Soviet border troops.
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John M
Member Extraordinaire
I would dearly love a green set of original AK furniture!
Well, if you didn't, now you know exactly what they were here for
Podgornov tells us that the bodies of these magazines had mould numbers "19" and "23". Any green AK74 mags without those numbers should be considered counterfeit AK mags.
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John M
Member Extraordinaire
Not painful, just lustful Didier!
Dan1219
Proactive member
I’ve always wanted a Saiga 410 myself
Dan1219
Proactive member
The breach seal on the right is from the Skober tuning kit , I bought a set and parts that go into the magazine value unit to up the power quite a bit , it uses 8 gram co2 bulbs as the transfer port is larger
Dan1219
Proactive member
That’s mad having mags banned from none licence holders , you can literally buy any mag you want here in the uk , AR drum mags and extended ones for everything else
That was also the case here some ten years ago, then we had the November 13 terror attacks in 2015 and everything changed. Former 'deactivated' AK mags can't even be sold.
Dan1219
Proactive member
Here are some of my yunkers , I’ve once fitted the East German furniture to clone the rare MPI 74 MK short barrelled carbine , the furniture and excellent ZFK Zeiss scope fitted but the folding stock folds to the right not the Russian left
Since fitted original furniture , I’ve recently found an original early kobra sight which I’m yet to try out on my range .
Since fitted original furniture , I’ve recently found an original early kobra sight which I’m yet to try out on my range .
Attachments
That is a beautiful collection, Dan! 
I love East German furniture, so I can easily understand why you chose to dress up your Yunker like that.
Is your PBS a real one?
In my opinion, the most desirable of all AKs is the East German full auto .22 LR KK-MPi-69 trainer - most of them were destroyed, but a few guns survived in Switzerland and in the U.S. (most of them rebuilt from parts kits).
The 4.5 mm Yunker BB gun is the more accessible version of such trainers
Ain't that a sweet little gun?
I love East German furniture, so I can easily understand why you chose to dress up your Yunker like that.
Is your PBS a real one?
In my opinion, the most desirable of all AKs is the East German full auto .22 LR KK-MPi-69 trainer - most of them were destroyed, but a few guns survived in Switzerland and in the U.S. (most of them rebuilt from parts kits).
The 4.5 mm Yunker BB gun is the more accessible version of such trainers
Ain't that a sweet little gun?
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