PCP With Nitrogen Charge

I found this.
I have also used Argon with no problem
 

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ChrisHobbs said:
See post #35 👍
But in essence, yes that is what it says.
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Yes, I've already read that article. My question essentially refers to it. Unfortunately, it only contains a short passage.
How are airsoft guns regulated then? They also use propane, right?
Here , they fall under the Weapons Law sub 7.5Joule (Free weapons marked with an "F" in a pentagon).

But no offense intended if such discussions are not permitted, desired, or even prohibited here.
My sole interest lies in understanding it. It doesn't affect me personally, as there are different laws regarding this in Germany, and because I have a firearms license anyway.
Because the law here in Germany refers to "cold gases," I would be allowed to use N2. Let's completely disregard the pros and cons, whether it makes sense or not.
 
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ChrisHobbs said:
PLEASE, PLEASE,PLEASE
Think about what you are saying!
This is a public forum, and you have just admitted to using Argon gas. With the inference that it was for filling an air weapon.
That is illegal in this country!
🤦‍♂️
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I hear what you are saying but like Co2, N and Argon they are all present in "air" just in different amounts and as long as the 6 or 12ftlb rule is not passed no licence is required.
 
An air gun or airgun is a gun that uses compressed air or other pressurized gases to fire projectiles, reminiscent of the principle behind the ancient blowgun. This is in contrast to a firearm, which shoots projectiles using pressure generated via combustion of a chemical propellant, most often black powder in antique firearms and smokeless powder in modern firearms.

Air guns come in both long gun (air rifle) and handgun (air pistol) forms. Both types typically propel metallic projectiles that are either diabolo-shaped pellets or spherical shots called BBs, although in recent years Minié ball-shaped cylindro-conoidal projectiles called slugs are gaining more popularity. Certain types of air guns (usually air rifles) may also launch fin-stabilized projectile such as darts (e.g., tranquilizer guns) or hollow-shaft arrows (so-called "airbows").

The first air guns were developed as early as the 16th century, and have since been used in hunting, shooting sport and even in warfare. There are three different power sources for modern air guns, depending on the design: spring-piston, pneumatic<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_gun#cite_note-1"><span>[</span>1<span>]</span></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_gun#cite_note-2"><span>[</span>2<span>]</span></a> or bottled compressed gas (most commonly carbon dioxide and recently nitrogen).
 
stevegibbs said:
I hear what you are saying but like Co2, N and Argon they are all present in "air" just in different amounts and as long as the 6 or 12ftlb rule is not passed no licence is required.
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you sure about that ?

Gasses Requiring Certification
If an airgun uses a gas other than compressed air or CO2 (such as nitrogen or other propellants), it is no longer exempt from the standard certification requirements.
  • Mandatory FAC: Any firearm using other gasses requires a Firearm Certificate (FAC) to possess, regardless of whether its power level is below the usual 12/6 ft-lbs thresholds.
  • Prohibited Gasses: Section 5(1)(b) of the 1968 Act prohibits weapons designed or adapted for the discharge of any noxious liquid, gas, or other thing (e.g., CS gas or pepper spray).



    I'm reading this as co2 and air only .
 
I seem to remember someone from India, years ago, asking on an American forum whether he could use nitrogen at 200 bar instead of air as he had access to nitrogen, but had difficulty getting compressed air at 200 bar.
Apparently the problem he had was that different fittings were used for nitrogen and he was after someone to make an adapter.
Never saw the outcome.
Interesting to know that using a gas other than air or CO2 is illegal.
--
Ian
 
stevegibbs said:
An air gun or airgun is a gun that uses compressed air or other pressurized gases to fire projectiles, reminiscent of the principle behind the ancient blowgun. This is in contrast to a firearm, which shoots projectiles using pressure generated via combustion of a chemical propellant, most often black powder in antique firearms and smokeless powder in modern firearms.

Air guns come in both long gun (air rifle) and handgun (air pistol) forms. Both types typically propel metallic projectiles that are either diabolo-shaped pellets or spherical shots called BBs, although in recent years Minié ball-shaped cylindro-conoidal projectiles called slugs are gaining more popularity. Certain types of air guns (usually air rifles) may also launch fin-stabilized projectile such as darts (e.g., tranquilizer guns) or hollow-shaft arrows (so-called "airbows").

The first air guns were developed as early as the 16th century, and have since been used in hunting, shooting sport and even in warfare. There are three different power sources for modern air guns, depending on the design: spring-piston, pneumatic<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_gun#cite_note-1"><span>[</span>1<span>]</span></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_gun#cite_note-2"><span>[</span>2<span>]</span></a> or bottled compressed gas (most commonly carbon dioxide and recently nitrogen).
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that may well be true but our sub 12s are classed as "low power airguns "

Purely being labelled an "airgun " is not an exemption from requiring fac . It's the " low power" bit that counts for non fac
 
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stevegibbs said:
An air gun or airgun is a gun that uses compressed air or other pressurized gases to fire projectiles, reminiscent of the principle behind the ancient blowgun. This is in contrast to a firearm, which shoots projectiles using pressure generated via combustion of a chemical propellant, most often black powder in antique firearms and smokeless powder in modern firearms.

Air guns come in both long gun (air rifle) and handgun (air pistol) forms. Both types typically propel metallic projectiles that are either diabolo-shaped pellets or spherical shots called BBs, although in recent years Minié ball-shaped cylindro-conoidal projectiles called slugs are gaining more popularity. Certain types of air guns (usually air rifles) may also launch fin-stabilized projectile such as darts (e.g., tranquilizer guns) or hollow-shaft arrows (so-called "airbows").

The first air guns were developed as early as the 16th century, and have since been used in hunting, shooting sport and even in warfare. There are three different power sources for modern air guns, depending on the design: spring-piston, pneumatic<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_gun#cite_note-1"><span>[</span>1<span>]</span></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_gun#cite_note-2"><span>[</span>2<span>]</span></a> or bottled compressed gas (most commonly carbon dioxide and recently nitrogen).
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That may all be true. But it's more of a general definition.

Laws, however (I think also in the UK), generally have their own definitions in the appendices.

Therefore, only what is defined in the law is permitted. If it says "Warm frog farts may be used," then "cold frog farts" may not automatically be used as well.
 
Hmangphilly said:
you sure about that ?

Gasses Requiring Certification
If an airgun uses a gas other than compressed air or CO2 (such as nitrogen or other propellants), it is no longer exempt from the standard certification requirements.
  • Mandatory FAC: Any firearm using other gasses requires a Firearm Certificate (FAC) to possess, regardless of whether its power level is below the usual 12/6 ft-lbs thresholds.
  • Prohibited Gasses: Section 5(1)(b) of the 1968 Act prohibits weapons designed or adapted for the discharge of any noxious liquid, gas, or other thing (e.g., CS gas or pepper spray).



    I'm reading this as co2 and air only .
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Yes definitely correct.
UK law as above.

Please think folks... This forum and many other like it are all over the Internet and the threads posts etc that you post are around for almost ever, plus this forum is wide open for anyone to read yes I mean anyone and everyone can read what you type.

Don't put out stuff what certain people can use against us to end our hobby.

FFS...
Can you please maybe and just try to think before you type a reply or post on the Internet be it in hast, or even just trying to prove a point that you're right or even wrong. Think it over what's best you're ego or our hobby??🤔

Not bring funny, but try to think what's for the greater good...

There's been a LOT of posts in the past about this, even manufactures have got involved saying use compressed / breathing air only especially in the UK.

Leave it be, use common sense.
 
Quentyn said:
If you want to bit of a laugh go on to the other forum and suggest that people use pure nitrogen..

Given that you breathe over 75% nitrogen as you're currently sitting there reading this message there's no problem at all and filling your gun with nitrogen.

Pure oxygen on the other hand... I saw a picture of a theoben that has been filled with pure oxygen and the block was in many different pieces.
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Over 30years ago I was a welder at Vauxhall, and had to go on a safe gas handling course run by BOC (very graphic). I have a lot healthier respect for them. The results can be devastating 😱
 
This has now got to the point where, like some other subjects, peoples understanding of and opinions have taken over the discussion. I can not find any black and white ruling about what can and can not be used in a non "fac air gun" I can find no case law (but iam not saying that there is none just that i cant find any) and anyway how could you ever prove what percentage of what ever gas inert or not that was being used. This is a discussion not a witch hunt. I welcome anyone input. On the subject as others may find it of interest.
 
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jumglejim said:
I had a thought today and wondered what would happen if a PCP air gun was charged with nitrogen. I copied and pasted this from Google. It surprised me and now I wonder if it would benefit a competition shooter would benefit?

If a PCP (Pre-Charged Pneumatic) air gun was charged with nitrogen, it would operate with no issues and the results would be virtually the same as using compressed air. The gun would function safely and likely experience some minor benefits to its internal components due to the properties of nitrogen.

Key Outcomes
  • Safety: Nitrogen is an inert gas and makes up about 78% of the air we breathe. Unlike oxygen, it does not support combustion, so there is no fire or explosion risk, even if oil or other contaminants are present in the air gun's system. This makes it a very safe alternative to regular air.
  • Performance: There would be no noticeable performance difference in terms of pellet velocity or consistency for a standard air gun. The physical properties of nitrogen gas at typical air gun pressures are very similar to those of air.
  • Benefits to the Gun: The primary advantage of using pure nitrogen is that it is very clean and dry (moisture-free). This eliminates the moisture that is present in compressed air (even filtered air), which in the long term helps prevent internal corrosion (rust) and the degradation of O-rings and seals. The larger nitrogen molecules may also result in less leakage past seals compared to air.
  • Potential Drawbacks: The main reasons most people do not use pure nitrogen are the added cost and reduced availability of high-pressure nitrogen tanks compared to sourcing high-pressure breathing air. Some manufacturers might also void the warranty if a gas other than air is used, primarily to avoid liability issues from users experimenting with dangerous gases like pure oxygen.
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I might try that we use Nitrogen in our race tyres
 
stevegibbs said:
This has now got to the point where, like some other subjects, peoples understanding of and opinions have taken over the discussion. I can not find any black and white ruling about what can and can not be used in a non "fac air gun" I can find no case law and anyway how could you ever prove what percentage of what ever gas inert or not that was being used. This is a discussion not a witch hunt. I welcome anyone input. On the subject as others may find it of interest.
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Read the 1968 Firearms Act and 1997 amendments.

The way this works is that things that are not specifically exempt from licensing laws are not exempt from them. The 1968 act exempts air and the 1997 amendment exempts CO2 therefore anything that is not air or CO2 is NOT exempt and are subject to the licensing law and require FAC.
 
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rockdrill said:
@Frog, could you add a link so the source data can be accessed readily by those who aren't familiar with the relevant legislation.
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I don't believe that there is any case law for people being prosecuted for filling their pcps with nitrogen. Given that 70% of the air you breathe, and it won't change the power of your PCP , filling your PCP with nitrogen is not a prosecution that would be in the public interest I would assume.
 
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