Survival/post apocalypse air rifle?

Johnf66 said:
All good zombies movies needs a guy that go down swinging.
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Fixed it for you!

I never shoot this thing, but I think this might actually be a viable option
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Besides if the Zombie Apocalypse is coming, with my luck to I'm probably going to be one of the zombies...
 
Rikimaru said:
If we are talking collapse of civilization, surviving in the UK, collecting food & staying away from other survivors, then we need to know what we are using an airgun for.
Hunting for small game? - Yes
Self-defence? - No, unless absolutely forced to (no better weapon available).

So, we want an airgun to hunt small game/birds & that is it. FAC, no not really. It isn't needed & FAC guns are going to have reduced parts lifespan due to the strain induced by producing more power.

12 ft lbs is plenty for small game, rabbits, squirrel, pheasant, Hare, pigeon, water fowl etc. All are easily taken by 12ftlbs air rifles.

One of the main survival considerations with gear is weight. More weight means more energy expenditure. If you can achieve a result with less weight, do it.
The HW80, TX range & other equivalent weight guns are just heavy. You can hunt just as effectively with lighter rifles & save valuable energy doing it & utilise the calories from the food you catch effectively.
This also applies to ammunition. 177 is the only calibre for survival airgun, just as effective for hunting but much more ammo can be carried for the same weight.
FAC guns are also usually heavy, so not an option as avoiding the additional weight much is more valuable than an extra 10 - 15 yds range.

One of the main contributors to survival is efficient calorie management. The heavier your equipment the more calories you need to ingest. A gun that is 2lbs heavier than an equivalent performance but lighter rifle is a liability that could be the difference between surviving & not.

Survival often means avoiding other survivors in hostile areas. This means being quiet. The air rifle is perfect for this even without silencers. Hunting while staying undetected is easier with an airgun & also makes hunting easier by not scaring game/birds. An effective silencer is a bonus but not a necessity. Shotguns & powder burners are good hunting tools but are loud, the ideal is never attracting attention, shotguns & bullet guns are all well & good as long as the opposition don't have them as well. Evasion is always favoured & hunting with an airgun helps maintain that elusiveness.

Reliability - any equipment taken needs to be rugged, simple & uncompleted mechanically, easy to maintain & easy to repair. PCP's, CO2, & pump ups are totally unsuited to survival, even if recharging air/CO2 was possible, seals will degrade much faster than a spring guns parts.

So given the above, which rifle meets those criteria. For me it has to be the Webley Excel. Vulcan is also good but the Excel is superior.

177 carbine barreled Excel. Compact, lightweight, rugged & accurate enough.

The Excel weighs 7lbs, less for carbine variant. Compare that to an HW80 or HW77, TX200 etc.

Simplicity - the Excel is extremely simple to strip down & rebuild. 4 screws, 2 pins, remove trigger & trigger spring. No spring compressor needed.
Trigger is basic, with a simple coil spring that is easily replaced. Sear spring is simple to fabricate if needed. Maintenance is therefore simple as well.

Barrel pivot, end plug pin & detent bar all simple pins, no screws so easy to make replacements. No fragile barrel shims or complicated breech lock up catches. Underlevers are a total no-no. To heavy & over complicated. Excel has a rugged, simple one piece cocking lever & simple but hard wearing barrel detente lock up. Proven 100% reliable over 30+ years, no gaulling, barrel droop etc

Accuracy - in 177 Excel is easily capable of hunting shots out to 30yds.

Open sights are rugged & simple. Fit a decent but simple & rugged 4 x 32 & you have a good sighting set up with back up opens.

The Vulcan derived guns are time proven, well engineered, tough & reliable airguns & are pretty much the perfect survival air rifle.

Take 2 spare mainsprings, a spare set of trigger parts, couple of piston & breech seals & a Swiss army knife & you have all you need for years of hunting. Only restricted by how much ammo you can carry.

If you understand exactly what you are expecting from your air rifle in a survival situation & more importantly what you do not require from it, then it becomes very clear that rifles like the HW80 are not the answer. KISS applies, along with less weight the better. Does your gun need to look cool? No, it does not. It needs to work & that's it.
Click to expand...

On that basis the best air rifle is going to be an smk 19 variation of rifle. Lightweight, full power as basic as basic can be.
 
Rikimaru said:
If we are talking collapse of civilization, surviving in the UK, collecting food & staying away from other survivors, then we need to know what we are using an airgun for.
Hunting for small game? - Yes
Self-defence? - No, unless absolutely forced to (no better weapon available).

So, we want an airgun to hunt small game/birds & that is it. FAC, no not really. It isn't needed & FAC guns are going to have reduced parts lifespan due to the strain induced by producing more power.

12 ft lbs is plenty for small game, rabbits, squirrel, pheasant, Hare, pigeon, water fowl etc. All are easily taken by 12ftlbs air rifles.

One of the main survival considerations with gear is weight. More weight means more energy expenditure. If you can achieve a result with less weight, do it.
The HW80, TX range & other equivalent weight guns are just heavy. You can hunt just as effectively with lighter rifles & save valuable energy doing it & utilise the calories from the food you catch effectively.
This also applies to ammunition. 177 is the only calibre for survival airgun, just as effective for hunting but much more ammo can be carried for the same weight.
FAC guns are also usually heavy, so not an option as avoiding the additional weight much is more valuable than an extra 10 - 15 yds range.

One of the main contributors to survival is efficient calorie management. The heavier your equipment the more calories you need to ingest. A gun that is 2lbs heavier than an equivalent performance but lighter rifle is a liability that could be the difference between surviving & not.

Survival often means avoiding other survivors in hostile areas. This means being quiet. The air rifle is perfect for this even without silencers. Hunting while staying undetected is easier with an airgun & also makes hunting easier by not scaring game/birds. An effective silencer is a bonus but not a necessity. Shotguns & powder burners are good hunting tools but are loud, the ideal is never attracting attention, shotguns & bullet guns are all well & good as long as the opposition don't have them as well. Evasion is always favoured & hunting with an airgun helps maintain that elusiveness.

Reliability - any equipment taken needs to be rugged, simple & uncompleted mechanically, easy to maintain & easy to repair. PCP's, CO2, & pump ups are totally unsuited to survival, even if recharging air/CO2 was possible, seals will degrade much faster than a spring guns parts.

So given the above, which rifle meets those criteria. For me it has to be the Webley Excel. Vulcan is also good but the Excel is superior.

177 carbine barreled Excel. Compact, lightweight, rugged & accurate enough.

The Excel weighs 7lbs, less for carbine variant. Compare that to an HW80 or HW77, TX200 etc.

Simplicity - the Excel is extremely simple to strip down & rebuild. 4 screws, 2 pins, remove trigger & trigger spring. No spring compressor needed.
Trigger is basic, with a simple coil spring that is easily replaced. Sear spring is simple to fabricate if needed. Maintenance is therefore simple as well.

Barrel pivot, end plug pin & detent bar all simple pins, no screws so easy to make replacements. No fragile barrel shims or complicated breech lock up catches. Underlevers are a total no-no. To heavy & over complicated. Excel has a rugged, simple one piece cocking lever & simple but hard wearing barrel detente lock up. Proven 100% reliable over 30+ years, no gaulling, barrel droop etc

Accuracy - in 177 Excel is easily capable of hunting shots out to 30yds.

Open sights are rugged & simple. Fit a decent but simple & rugged 4 x 32 & you have a good sighting set up with back up opens.

The Vulcan derived guns are time proven, well engineered, tough & reliable airguns & are pretty much the perfect survival air rifle.

Take 2 spare mainsprings, a spare set of trigger parts, couple of piston & breech seals & a Swiss army knife & you have all you need for years of hunting. Only restricted by how much ammo you can carry.

If you understand exactly what you are expecting from your air rifle in a survival situation & more importantly what you do not require from it, then it becomes very clear that rifles like the HW80 are not the answer. KISS applies, along with less weight the better. Does your gun need to look cool? No, it does not. It needs to work & that's it.
Click to expand...

Agree with pretty much all these sentiments except I've never shot a Webley Excel (but now I have a hankering for one 😃)
 
Air rifle only 22 spring around 18 ft
Anything goes 22lr hands down.
Moose to mouse silent deadly drops anything that lives in the UK ( so I have been told 🥺) . 2000 rounds easy to carry more reliable than a reliable thing and 2000 rounds would out live you .
Fig 11 target @ 100 easy .
 
confidis said:
Anything goes 22lr hands down.
Moose to mouse silent deadly drops anything that lives in the UK ( so I have been told 🥺) . 2000 rounds easy to carry more reliable than a reliable thing and 2000 rounds would out live you .
Fig 11 target @ 100 easy .
Click to expand...
And this is exactly why it's been around for 130 + years 🤠 😎
 
confidis said:
Air rifle only 22 spring around 18 ft
Anything goes 22lr hands down.
Moose to mouse silent deadly drops anything that lives in the UK ( so I have been told 🥺) . 2000 rounds easy to carry more reliable than a reliable thing and 2000 rounds would out live you .
Fig 11 target @ 100 easy .
Click to expand...
Nope. 22 pellets are heavier, you want as much ammo as possible. 18ftlbs, why? You don't need it, a 12ftlbs gun will get you the as much game & birds as the heavier & less reliable (over time) FAC.
 
LumisArms said:
I have the crosman vital shot which is the same one rebranded, the trigger unit is basic and simple and can be removed very easily as can the abt.
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Not as basic & easy to maintain as the Excel trigger & the Excel doesn't have an ABT to remove in the 1st place. Don't get me wrong, the SMK19 is a decent choice & meets much of the criteria for a decent survival rifle but I'd 100% take the Excel over it (or the Vulcan).
 
Rifles are an option, yeah but to be fair practiced knowledge is the key.
If we get serious then knowledge of seasonal foragable wild plants, nuts, berries ,fruits and fungi is a good start and how to store them for the lean months.
Knowledge of how to fish and trap is another key skill set with smoking and salting for long term storage. Salt production is another little but key skill along with purifying water.
Then there is big game hunting and butchery experience.
An air rifle won't help with any of this but the most important and probably most under appreciated key to long term survival Is community.
This means looking after and feeding those around you, educating them and working together for a common survival.
So on a serious note bushcraft knowledge + farming knowledge with as big a community possible. The air rifle will help though to put some meat in the pot while rebuilding a functioning community. *NO VEGANS ALLOWED*.
 
nowhereman said:
Rifles are an option, yeah but to be fair practiced knowledge is the key.
If we get serious then knowledge of seasonal foragable wild plants, nuts, berries ,fruits and fungi is a good start and how to store them for the lean months.
Knowledge of how to fish and trap is another key skill set with smoking and salting for long term storage. Salt production is another little but key skill along with purifying water.
Then there is big game hunting and butchery experience.
An air rifle won't help with any of this but the most important and probably most under appreciated key to long term survival Is community.
This means looking after and feeding those around you, educating them and working together for a common survival.
So on a serious note bushcraft knowledge + farming knowledge with as big a community possible. The air rifle will help though to put some meat in the pot while rebuilding a functioning community. *NO VEGANS ALLOWED*.
Click to expand...
There's nowt wrong with vegans in the community. They can be a good source of protein over the winter months. Not the fattest, but every little helps.
 
nowhereman said:
Rifles are an option, yeah but to be fair practiced knowledge is the key.
If we get serious then knowledge of seasonal foragable wild plants, nuts, berries ,fruits and fungi is a good start and how to store them for the lean months.
Knowledge of how to fish and trap is another key skill set with smoking and salting for long term storage. Salt production is another little but key skill along with purifying water.
Then there is big game hunting and butchery experience.
An air rifle won't help with any of this but the most important and probably most under appreciated key to long term survival Is community.
This means looking after and feeding those around you, educating them and working together for a common survival.
So on a serious note bushcraft knowledge + farming knowledge with as big a community possible. The air rifle will help though to put some meat in the pot while rebuilding a functioning community. *NO VEGANS ALLOWED*.
Click to expand...
I take this stuff seriously & have researched & practiced various survival techniques over the years & have learned from some knowledgeable countrymen, gamekeepers & some courses (Ray Mears).

Here is my small bug out bag. Get out quick & survive short term. Water proof cover packed in the tarp.

IMG_20231108_221341695_HDR.jpg

Mora garberg knife.

IMG_20231108_221411928_HDR.jpg

Fire starting tools, sharpening stones & compass.

IMG_20231108_221513406~2.jpg

Leatherman

IMG_20231108_221547450_HDR.jpg

Water filtration

IMG_20231108_221733117_HDR~2.jpg

Medical supplies

IMG_20231108_221630901_HDR~2.jpg

Axe, cooking equipment, heavy duty plastic bags & life blanket

IMG_20231108_222024075.jpg

More water filtration

IMG_20231108_221812246~2.jpg

Batteries & rubber inner tube (fire starting & tourniquet)

IMG_20231108_221923154_HDR.jpg

Rangefinder

IMG_20231108_222133430.jpg

My son has a bag as well with stoves, fuel, medical etc.

EDIT: people have asked me why I bother, it's never going to happen. I answer, I hope it doesn't, I hope I've spent money I could Ill afford, but what if it does happen. I'd rather have it & never use it than it happen & regret not having it to hand.
 
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Rikimaru said:
I take this stuff seriously & have researched & practiced various survival techniques over the years & have learned from some knowledgeable countrymen, gamekeepers & some courses (Ray Mears).

Here is my small bug out bag. Get out quick & survive short term. Water proof cover packed in the tarp.

View attachment 342199

Mora garberg knife.

View attachment 342201

Fire starting tools, sharpening stones & compass.

View attachment 342202

Leatherman

View attachment 342203

Water filtration

View attachment 342205

Medical supplies

View attachment 342206

Axe, cooking equipment, heavy duty plastic bags & life blanket

View attachment 342207

More water filtration

View attachment 342208

Batteries & rubber inner tube (fire starting & tourniquet)

View attachment 342209

Rangefinder

View attachment 342210

My son has a bag as well with stoves, fuel, medical etc.
Click to expand...
Great insurance, I have similar and I hope never to have to use it for real.
Always good for wild camping in the woods with my kids for fun every chance we get though.
I reckon you could squeeze a bit of gold and silver and some decent seeds in to a pocket somewhere 😉
Mora Garberg is a seriously underrated knife especially for the price.
Definitely considered the bug out option but also the community option and not bugging out. Starting with neighbours, local friends, your street and working out.
The bigger your tribe the better your chances.
Its all hypothetical though and I really hope it stays that way. One thing I have noticed about the reality of long term off grid survival is its constant hard work, especially solo.
 
LumisArms said:
Been thinking about it for years 🤣🤣 its why my car has no ecu and no fancy electrics. An emp goes off 90% of cars on the road are gonna be rendered usless which means more fuel for those older cars. Even spares for my car i have squirreled away enough to cover the most serious breakdowns.

Its same with all my guns i always keep plenty of spares for them all. Especially with the way things are going it wont be long before the excrement hits the fan methinks
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What car have you got out of interest?
 
Let me remind you that if the apocalypse comes, there will be millions without food fighting and scavenging for what's left. Every single house will be broken into, every shop and farm/business will be raided.
So lets say you find a spot in some remote wood somewhere. How long will it be before the millions trample through every wood in the UK looking for food? Weeks? Months? As soon as the words deer and rabbit enters their tiny minds, they'll raid every forest in the UK from Brighton the John Ogroats. We are talking about millions of people with brains who are starving to death, they'll ransack the entire island, it's not big enough to hide from them.
The only way you'd survive it would be one of those shelters you can bury 20 feet under your garden, stock it with 2 years of food then come back out when everyones dead, and hope to god no one knows your shelter is there because they'll dig the lot up with a jcb.
 
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